6 ms·

why is it amazing? the govt gives Tesla billions in taxpayer money and carbon offset $, which is both 100% margin.

yuppie_scum 3y ago
Seems like the conversation is about the number of cars it produces, not revenue or profits.
toomuchtodo 3y ago
Any automaker is eligible for those subsides if they sell EVs (with a bonus based on US content). Their lack of will or ability to deliver is all that holds them back. Sell EVs if you want government support. I am unwilling to argue the merit of EV subsidies, that conversation has no value. It’s amazing because Tesla built an EV that is wildly in demand roughly around the price of the average new car accounting for subsides. The Model Y was the best selling car globally last quarter, beating out Toyota. https://electrek.co/2023/05/25/tesla-model-y-is-now-the-worlds-best-selling-car-first-ev-to-do-so/ https://electrek.co/2023/05/25/tesla-model-y-is-now-the-worl...
- 7e 3y ago
  Tesla holds special government status in China that other non-domestic car companies do not have.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    Tesla makes their Chinese EVs in China and sources most of its supplies there. Almost all other foreign car companies in China are 51-49 join ventures (with 51 being the Chinese partner's controlling share) so they are also eligible for those subsidies.
boboche 3y ago
I don’t get Why the hate and easy one liners like this, when Tesla refunded the only gov lease they got with interests while all legacy are digging their deficit further, the rest is equal grounds for all manufacturer to compete. American should be proud and supportive for any local company actually dedicated to quit fossil fuels or anything about not relying on another country.
- 7e 3y ago
  Tesla relies on China for its growth, as well as a big chunk of its batteries.
  - andreygrehov 3y ago
    The entire world relies on China. That’s not an argument.
    - nyokodo 3y ago
      The post they were responding to said “not relying on another country” so pointing out Tesla’s reliance on China is a contrary argument. In fact the supply chain for EVs is even more complex than that. China has a huge hyper-financed chokehold on many processing steps but the raw materials come from across the globe. On the other hand, ICE vehicles have a relatively simple supply chain so it’s a big weakness that EVs currently have and well worth pointing out.
      - ggm 3y ago
        > On the other hand, ICE vehicles have a relatively simple supply chain Relatively simple == simpler, but I would point out it's brittle because just-in-time hyperoptimisations sucked it dry of spare capacity. Stocks of EMS microchips held up production. Most of a car outside of ICE/EV differences are the same inputs, same supply chain. Tesla's stamped bodyparts require metal billets the same way normal auto car body panel stampers do. Inside of ICE/EV differences Tesla runs flow processes to make batteries close to site. The input supply chain for batteries is pretty simple. I am not sure I would say the supply chain behind a fuel injection system is as simple, it has mechanical and electromechanical and electronic parts in profusion. Lots of points of brittleness.
stetrain 3y ago
These are available to any manufacturer that invests in producing EVs.
panick21_ 3y ago
The government has rules about air quality. Companies that can't match those rules have to pay other companies that do match those rules money. Its not money from the government. If other companies are to dumb and incompetent to make their cars follow emissions regulation, then that's their own fault.

Seems like the conversation is about the number of cars it produces, not revenue or profits.

Any automaker is eligible for those subsides if they sell EVs (with a bonus based on US content). Their lack of will or ability to deliver is all that holds them back. Sell EVs if you want government support. I am unwilling to argue the merit of EV subsidies, that conversation has no value. It’s amazing because Tesla built an EV that is wildly in demand roughly around the price of the average new car accounting for subsides. The Model Y was the best selling car globally last quarter, beating out Toyota. https://electrek.co/2023/05/25/tesla-model-y-is-now-the-worlds-best-selling-car-first-ev-to-do-so/ https://electrek.co/2023/05/25/tesla-model-y-is-now-the-worl...

7e 3y ago
Tesla holds special government status in China that other non-domestic car companies do not have.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  Tesla makes their Chinese EVs in China and sources most of its supplies there. Almost all other foreign car companies in China are 51-49 join ventures (with 51 being the Chinese partner's controlling share) so they are also eligible for those subsidies.

boboche 3y ago

I don’t get Why the hate and easy one liners like this, when Tesla refunded the only gov lease they got with interests while all legacy are digging their deficit further, the rest is equal grounds for all manufacturer to compete. American should be proud and supportive for any local company actually dedicated to quit fossil fuels or anything about not relying on another country.

7e 3y ago
Tesla relies on China for its growth, as well as a big chunk of its batteries.
- andreygrehov 3y ago
  The entire world relies on China. That’s not an argument.
  - nyokodo 3y ago
    The post they were responding to said “not relying on another country” so pointing out Tesla’s reliance on China is a contrary argument. In fact the supply chain for EVs is even more complex than that. China has a huge hyper-financed chokehold on many processing steps but the raw materials come from across the globe. On the other hand, ICE vehicles have a relatively simple supply chain so it’s a big weakness that EVs currently have and well worth pointing out.
    - ggm 3y ago
      > On the other hand, ICE vehicles have a relatively simple supply chain Relatively simple == simpler, but I would point out it's brittle because just-in-time hyperoptimisations sucked it dry of spare capacity. Stocks of EMS microchips held up production. Most of a car outside of ICE/EV differences are the same inputs, same supply chain. Tesla's stamped bodyparts require metal billets the same way normal auto car body panel stampers do. Inside of ICE/EV differences Tesla runs flow processes to make batteries close to site. The input supply chain for batteries is pretty simple. I am not sure I would say the supply chain behind a fuel injection system is as simple, it has mechanical and electromechanical and electronic parts in profusion. Lots of points of brittleness.

stetrain 3y ago

These are available to any manufacturer that invests in producing EVs.

panick21_ 3y ago

The government has rules about air quality. Companies that can't match those rules have to pay other companies that do match those rules money. Its not money from the government. If other companies are to dumb and incompetent to make their cars follow emissions regulation, then that's their own fault.