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Please, I beg science ... anything like this. I do what I'm told to do. Yet as the years pass it's been cavities, root canals, extractions, crowns, and everyt
by EMM_386 3y ago
Please, I beg science ... anything like this.
I do what I'm told to do. Yet as the years pass it's been cavities, root canals, extractions, crowns, and everything else.
The worst part isn't even the procedure, it's the cost (in the U.S. at least!). Thousands and thousands of dollars any time they need to do anything. And that's with dental insurance. They like to deny claims.
Dental should be covered under medical but that's an entirely different story. For now, I hope science keeps working on this.
- spdustin 3y agoAlso in the US, and also frustrated with the cost of dental care. I was poor growing up, so the solution to major dental issues was an emergency extraction. And I’m not exactly rolling in it now, and having to deal with several missing fillings, all uppers needing considerable work after an ill-informed “LVI” veneer experience ~20 years ago, and a decade old temporary implant that I could never afford to have finished with the permanent. And yes, I do my damnedest to take care of my teeth. Issues just keep piling up, and just one procedure for one crown—with dental insurance—would still be >$1k. It’s depressing, honestly.
- olliej 3y agoIt's super rough in NZ as well. Dentistry (though not optional orthodontics like cosmetic braces) in NZ is free until you turn 18. The day you turn 18, it becomes private care only, and it's entirely out of pocket - just as you go off to university and have no money for 3+ years.
- midoridensha 3y agoUnlike the Anglosphere countries apparently, here in Japan dental care is considered "medical" and an essential part of healthcare, and is covered by medical insurance just like any other medical problem. Cosmetic stuff of course is extra, but the essentials are covered no differently than any other procedure.
- chefandy 3y agoYeah— the distinction strikes me as vestigial.
- rjzzleep 3y agoIn Germany it used to be that way a long time ago. Then it went into base treatment free(amalgam fillings) and rest paid. Having been in the backend of health policy in Germany I can tell you that German current health leadership has been pushing to move normal care in the same direction as dental care to make more money.
- olliej 3y agoHealth insurance in the US makes it super explicit: "health insurance" does not cover dentistry or anything vision related. Because being unable to eat or see is not a health issue?
- midoridensha 3y agoIt's worse than that. Of course, you don't actually "need" teeth to eat: you can just eat baby food all the time I suppose. But a lot of infections in people start in the mouth, and historically tooth infections were the cause of early death for countless people. There's a reason people needed bad teeth pulled in the days before modern dentistry. And yeah, vision checkups are pretty important to: regular checkups find problems inside your eyes that will cause blindness later. The US seems to do an absolutely horrible job of preventative healthcare. Here in Japan, everyone gets a free yearly health checkup that looks for all kinds of issues; it includes blood, urine, and stool testing, and also includes hearing and vision checks, abdominal ultrasounds, a chest x-ray, etc.
- wingworks 3y agoYep, we get such a good start, then it's all downhill. At 18 you're hardly a responsible adult.. And it's not exactly cheap out of pocket here either. (though maybe better then the US? maybe)
- s5300 3y ago[dead]
- quadrature 3y agoThe incentives in oral care actively work against the patient. Our current system focuses on treating the symptoms instead of the root cause. You should have the knowledge required to advocate for your own outcomes. I’m not affiliated with them, but I think that bristle health is a step towards that reality. They offer oral microbiome testing and suggest personalized treatments to fix issues like cavities.
- wingworks 3y agoAllot of it is also education. I grew up thinking, if you get a cavity the dentist will fix it, no worries. But you're teeth can only be repaired so much, and every time it's more expensive. I never asked any questions or tried to understand why I got cavities (in part cos of the cost). It was just... I have bad teeth, it is what it is. But it's not. there is allot you can do, foods to avoid, drinks to avoid (beyond the obvious). But things are getting better, some dental hygienists are on YouTube now, who teach how to look after your teeth.
- quadrature 3y agoDefinitely, you can also add in foods and supplements to promote beneficial bacteria. But until recently finding objective measures of your interventions was hard.
- v4dok 3y agoCan you suggests some names? Unbiased (or some kind of polyphony) information on dental is so scarse its crazy
- wingworks 3y agoI came across Teeth Talk Girl a few months ago, allot of informative content, and seems pretty unbiased. There is also "Baseline Dental" and "Dr. Brett Langston" channels. Quality a bit mixed and somewhat promoting there place of work. But yeah, still pretty dry out there, but better then a few years ago. Probably more on tiktok... but that's tiktok.
- 3y ago
- wkat4242 3y agoIn Holland we (used to?) get these fluoride paste treatments when we're young. They reinforce the enamel and it works really well. I've had like 2 cavities and I'm in my late 40s. And I drink a ton of sodas. That paste used to make me really sick but wow it does work. Not sure if they still have this though because the neolibs have destroyed the state health system and replaced it with mandatory private insurance that doesn't include dental anymore.
- robbintt 3y agoThe US has this as well :)
- vibrio 3y agoI know many in the US that fluoride treatments that are ridden with fillings. I think you have a tooth shape and oral microbiome, that is resistant to cavities, rather than the fluoride treatments. How can we know what the provided the benefit based on n=1? Also General Jack D Ripper has concerns about the impact to P.O.E. ;)
- wkat4242 3y agoBecause it's not n=1. Most people from my generation have really strong teeth. It's something that really helped, my dentist joked about being put out of business :P My parents' generation have really bad teeth that started going bad in their teens already.
- tacotacotaco 3y agoIt’s called fluoride varnish. The ADA use to recommend it only for children but in the last decade they updated their guidelines to include all ages. My dentist applies it now but my insurance does not cover it.
- ukd1 3y agoAt least at my place, whilst also not covered, it's a $10 surcharge.
- 3y ago
- kderbyma 3y agoI hope this doesn't come across as poorly stated, but I would highly recommend looking into possible dietary causes. I don't mean you are eating like a slob, but rather you are eating something which you are not supposed to eat either because it is too processed for your body or it is an allergen. Tooth decay can be cause by the diet you are consuming and if you are not consuming the correct nutrients( bioavailability is based on your genetics and not just the source of food)
- wingworks 3y agoTo add to this, sugar/sweets aren't the only thing bad for your teeth. Other less obvious things like bread or pasta are terrible for the teeth. Basically the "simple carbohydrates" group of foods. Also acidity matters, try to keep it neutral like water/milk. (things like coffee or wine should be avoided). Brushing times can also help and always floss at least daily. If you're interested in learning more I would check out the teethtalkgirl YT channel. It's a great way to learn a heaps about teeth without paying $$$ at the dentist asking questions. (but you should still go to the dentist) Anyway, that's my 2c, best of luck, teeth are the worst.
- ornel 3y agoDo consider travelling to Mexico. There are many first rate dentists at a fraction of the cost in the US
- pzo 3y agoWhy not take a longer holiday to Turkey or Thailand once a year and do all dental appointments ? Should be much cheaper even with a flight and accomodation. I know some of people from UK doing this and flying to Turkey for yearly dental check. Dental clinics very professional there and you have English speaking staff. If USA based maybe Mexico or Colombia also a good closer choice?
- ripper1138 3y agoDental insurance is usually pretty decent in the US, probably not worth leaving the country unless it's significant work. I have no idea with OP is getting done that costs thousands of dollars. Certainly that's an outlier.
- grepfru_it 3y agoNo way, I have to get an implant and I was just quoted $4k with insurance.
- ripper1138 3y agoAn implant is certainly "significant work".
- throwaway290 3y agoOnce a year trip sounds totally fine for significant work
- nanidin 3y agoAn implant involves multiple appointments over like 2-4 months.
- clort 3y agoMakes me wonder what the insurance company is paying, how much you pay them and if its even worth it. My dentist (in UK) charges £2500 for an implant. I don't have insurance. (technically I do have insurance, since NHS dentistry exists which I pay for in my taxes. However I had an NHS dentist and when they got sold on to Bupa they would simply not do things which would be expensive for them, meaning after some years I had fillings falling out and broken teeth all over)
- Hnrobert42 3y agoIf this is all at one dentist, you may want to get a second opinion. It is very rare, but some dentists do more work than is necessary.
- ripper1138 3y agoOP must have a disease or something. According to some brief research, $25B spent on out-of-pocket dental work in 2021, which averages out to like $70 per person. And I'd guess that a significant number of people don't spend a dime.
- rjzzleep 3y agoFirst I'll say that I agree with you, there have been various treatments that never seemed to have made it into clinical trial and one that did make it but never became a treatment. Some where laser causing dentine to regenerate, one I remember was a certain kind of sponge filling made with an Alzheimer related treatment that would actually regenerate as the filling itself turned into dentine over time. But what do you mean with do as your told? What do you use to clean your teeth? What toothbrush to do you use? What are the ingredients of your toothpaste? What is the average PH of your mouth? Do you have acid reflux often? Do you eat sweet foods or flour i.e. simple carbs often? Do you eat a lot of fruits or salads before sleep? I've had a long history of cavities until I actually started paying more detailed attention to what I eat, what tooth paste I use etc. None of that is stuff any of the dentists I went to ever told me. I panicked when a piece of my tooth broke off almost a decade ago. BTW there is a treatment before you have to do root canals, I forgot the name, and most dentists don't do them. There is also a chance that it doesn't work and I assume that that's the reason why dentists don't generally offer it. I forgot the name but you can surely find it by googling. For a lot of people myself included don't an artificial gum transplant for receded gums also massively reduces exposure to dental issues. There are certain calcium phosphote combinations like the Novamin thing that GSK bought and then forbade everyone else to use or Hydroxyapatite, which is sort of artificial dentine.
- free_energy_min 3y agoWhat toothpaste do you use? Does it have Hydroxyapatite?
- rjzzleep 3y agoI use the Biorepair night creme(it's actually Hydroxyapatite and Xylitol) and sometimes the sensodyne repair & protect(keep in mind that the German version does not include novamin) When my root was exposed I did apply clove oil and completely refrained from simple carbs for the treatment and after until it healed. EDIT: a lot of Japanese tooth pastes also have it by the way and there is no real guarantee that it works, but theoretically it's supposed to fill microabrasions temporarily.
- 3y ago
- safety1st 3y agoThere's also the question of how much dental "care" is really that. I will just throw some random stuff out there. * It used to be more popular to remove wisdom teeth. Opinions seem to have changed on this over time, I've never had mine removed, in my 40s now and so far so good. * I had a small crack in one of my molars and saw a dentist who said a crown would be necessary. I was skeptical and got a second opinion. The second dentist immediately said "It's small and I don't think you need a crown for this" and did a filling instead. Eight years later, so far so good! * Even FLOSSING was removed from the U.S. Department of Health's recommendations several years ago because there is a lack of evidence that it's effective! (I still floss around a couple of teeth every day in places where food likes to get stuck.) To do a crown the dentist has to grind down your tooth into a stub and irrevocably destroys the enamel in the process. To me an unnecessary crown sounds like borderline malpractice. I wonder how many other unnecessary procedures dentists are doing for the $$$$.
- __MatrixMan__ 3y agoYour first two points seem legit, but if you pay attention to the measurements they're taking it's pretty easy to notice that your periodontal pocket depths increase or decrease based on whether you've been flossing or not (mine do at least). And it's pretty obvious that deep pockets are a decay precursor.
- ransom1538 3y agoExactly. IMHO, dentistry has been a scam for 100 years. Every 80 year old I know doesn't have teeth. Anytime you ask for another opinion they act like the last dentist was an alien. I think flossing is important, but when they tried to do a study, nothing worked because all the dentists are lying scam artists -- so if you floss or not is irrelevant.
- function_seven 3y agoThe lack of evidence for flossing astounds me. I know that when I don’t floss, my gums will bleed sometimes during brushing and/or they’ll get inflamed. When I do floss regularly, absolutely no issue with bleeding or inflammation. It’s so clear to me that I can’t imagine what the difference is between my anecdata and whatever actual data is coming from these studies.
- beenBoutIT 3y agoThis is expected in the US, the kicker is that even in the comfortably socialist EU dentists generally aren't included in the state healthcare unless it becomes an emergency room issue. The dentist is in this regard a unique animal.
- gumby 3y agoIf you don’t get dental insurance through work it’s generally not worth it (premiums > typical expense). That doesn’t sound necessarily bad — insurance is for the extraordinary events anyway, right? But when my kid had his wisdom teeth out or I was hit by a car and needed a crown to hold a damaged tooth together, my regular health insurance covered it, not dental insurance.
- mbrochh 3y agoThis is not normal. It is 100% your diet. Eat a carnivore diet and your tooth issues will go away. At least try to eat only real foods, never add any added sugar into anything and avoid all processed foods (treat rice and pasta as processed foods as well, they are not real foods!). There are plenty of books out there that show that for all indigenous tribes, as soon as they got into contact with western civilization and started eating a carb heavy diet (beer & grains), their teeth rotted away within one generation.
- nanidin 3y agoIs the diet angle related to the contact of the food with the teeth, or is the related to something that happens after digestion? If it were only related to contact of food with teeth, wouldn't rinsing your mouth after eating achieve the same effect as any diet like "carnivore diet"?
- argonaut 3y agoThe diet angle is just sugar and carbs.
- mixmastamyk 3y agoImmediate contact and for quite a while until you brush again. Leftover sugars are turned to acid by mouth bacteria.
- abecedarius 3y agoI believe it's much more about nutrition, though there is a difference in oral microbiome too. Explanation at https://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2010/12/dr-mellanbys-tooth-decay-reversal-diet.html https://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2010/12/dr-mellanbys-... (The author, Stephan Guyenet, is not a carnivore-diet proponent afaik.)
- froddd 3y agoAny examples of those books? And by “carnivore”, do you mean specifically including meat? Or do you mean something completely different, like a ‘varied & balanced’ diet? I find it odd to list the biggest change in a move from a more tribal to a more westernised diet as being “beer & grains”. I would have expected the increase in sugar and chemicals/preservatives to be the relevant factor.
- no_wizard 3y agoThe best dentist I ever had was the one we had at the Apple campus. He was paid by Apple and everything was covered by corporate, more or less (whatever the insurance didn’t cover beyond copay was paid by Apple if I recall correctly). I saw them for awhile and we got friendly. He was a younger guy and told me that he was probably one of the few honest dentists in the area because his pay wasn’t dependent on high dollar procedure to make enough to keep a practice open. Apparently, unlike medical insurance, dental insurance pays pittance for most things, so upselling procedures is how dentists really make money, usually. Best dentist I ever had. Rarely did I need more than regularly scheduled cleanings and when I did he always started with the least invasive options (I grind my teeth in my sleep and before I realized it and got a guard there were complications) I miss that guy. I’ve been suspicious of dentists ever since and look for signs.
- intelVISA 3y ago> his pay wasn’t dependent on high dollar procedure to make enough to keep a practice open > I miss that guy. I’ve been suspicious of dentists ever since and look for signs. Now you can imagine how the avg person sees the cloud spaghetti coming out of a trendy boutique - being informed their 'perfectly fine' BSD box and ZFS setup needs to become a latent chain of 900ms microservices. Some cases it is the play, but often it's RDD from new hires or grifters.
- argonaut 3y agoThere are plenty of honest dentists in the Bay Area (and America). If you're well informed, it's easy to tell based on a combination of Yelp reviews and what they recommend when you come in for an exam. Most of them only take higher paying PPO insurance, or don't take insurance at all (well, they're out of network).
- tangjurine 3y agoWhen I first got to the Bay area I saw three dentists, and gave them the same x-rays. The first recommended I get eight fillings (which is why I went to the others). The second recommended I get two fillings (which I did get). And then the third recommended I get none. Needless to say I'm now also suspicious of dentists.
- wesleyoneal 3y agoI used to have all sorts of issues with my teeth, and ended up with 2 root canals, and crowns, and had 1 of them go bad. Ended up with an implanted tooth. Yikes. Learned later about how cavities work and figured out the best routine for my teeth - floss and then brush (Philips electric toothbrush) every morning. Brush and then fluoride rinse every night. I always floss/brush before breakfast, and wait at least 30 min after dinner to brush/fluoride rinse. I haven’t even had a cavity in 5+years, and my dentist always says I don’t even have any plaque to scrape off - “you have good dental hygiene, and I don’t say that very often”
- kbutler 3y agoSounds like you're doing great! But why floss in the morning instead of at night to give the longest time without food particles between your teeth?
- jiggywiggy 3y agoIt's weird to me. We've had hundreds of thousands of years with no dentists and toothpaste and now I'm told only way to keep teeth healthy is to brush twice a day with chemicals and an electric tool.
- vineyardmike 3y agoFor hundreds of thousands of years people had bad teeth and died before they're 35.
- mixmastamyk 3y agoTrue, also ate a lot less sugar.
- anmukha 3y agoIt's not a science problem. The system just robes you. For example, to replace one tooth with implant you need about 700$ in Belarus or about 1000$ in Poland. Ok, in these countries dentist has 1800$-3000$ netto. When I installed implant in Belarus, my dentist spent 30 minutes to remove tooth, make surgery to overgrow part of gum and install implant and then 20 minutes (after 3 month) to install new tooth. Let's imagine than in US doctor is few time slower. That means he need 4 hours for this. And let's imagine that ha want 100$ in hour. That still 400$ - nothing special. But I guess that in USA you will pay more then 3000$. As for materials and equipment, in US all this even chipper than in west Europe because all this is produced is US. And at the end you pay for unnecessary thinks like ad.
- troft 3y ago[dead]
- royarthur 3y agoWhat are you told to do? To f*ck your oral health, you need carbohydrate + an acidic environment.