5 ms·

Its mostly a result of chronic low income. Inflation has raised the ceiling for income, but the floor is still zero and many people (including me) are close to

Its mostly a result of chronic low income. Inflation has raised the ceiling for income, but the floor is still zero and many people (including me) are close to that. Job security has gone to shit even for college grads and decent paying jobs are heavily gate-kept, most people in bottom 40% of income distribution don't even have a chance of getting one of those. Low income = lower quality diet, less access to health care, lower quality housing and ultimately (for some) drug use and other hardship-related problems. This is also why it will never be addressed, as low-income issues have not been a priority in America for a long time (the most recent budget bill made it harder for SNAP recipients) and right now states are kicking millions of people off medicaid because they didn't complete paperwork.

tptacek 3y ago
Do you see the article saying that, and, if so, where?
- trashface 3y ago
  No, I didn't read it again. I read it last year when matt first wrote it (its a year old). My impression is he is generally out of touch with this issue and other income-related issues, he needs to get out of DC more.
  - tptacek 3y ago
    He's reporting other people's statistical analysis of life expectancy; should they get out of DC more, too?
brigadier132 3y ago
> Low income = lower quality diet I don't buy it. Most of Europe has lower income than the US but the quality of their food is just vastly superior. Just watch this video https://www.instagram.com/reel/CtzaSnGMIEN/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA%3D%3D https://www.instagram.com/reel/CtzaSnGMIEN/?igshid=MzRlODBiN... I suspect it's a combination of low quality food and not walking.
- mym1990 3y ago
  You really can’t compare the income levels without factoring the actual system that Europeans live in. Most Europeans don’t have a car, healthcare is subsidized, food is cheaper, +50 other things that are different. A European coming to the US on a European salary would not thrive.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    I’ve never seen food being cheaper in Europe. Maybe eating out, but grocery store prices in France and Germany always seemed a bit high to me, though a bargain compared to Switzerland.
- SimplyUnknown 3y ago
  Most Europeans also have a lower cost of living. So maybe the correct metric is average purchasing power, which goes down if the wages go down (that said, maybe only when viewed for lower or middle class incomes. It could be that rich become as much richer as the poor are becoming poorer, yielding zero change in purchasing power on average)
- rascul 3y ago
  > > Low income = lower quality diet > I don't buy it. Most of Europe has lower income than the US but the quality of their food is just vastly superior. I don't buy it either. I don't know about the Europe comparison, but there's plenty of high quality food available for low cost in the US. I notice many people just fill up with crappy box goods or fast food though.
- tzs 3y ago
  It's a bit counterintuitive but is probably kind of correct. Low income does not per se mean lower quality diet in the US. In fact, a healthy diet based on high quality food can be less expensive than a less health lower quality food based diet. However sources of high quality inexpensive foods are not evenly distributed. Many a low income neighborhood does not have a grocery store that caries such things. Many only have convenience stores like 7-11. Often those neighborhoods also don't have good and affordable public transit making it had for many residents to get to a real grocery store. And so there will be a tendency for lower income to result in a lower quality diet. These places where people have food access limits inside of countries that mostly have pretty good distribution are called "food deserts", and they are not just in the US [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_deserts_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_deserts_by_country
nayuki 3y ago
Personal income is just a claim on other people's goods and services. How would higher income fix problems like car crashes, gun violence, and drug overdoses? I'd argue that people are spending time and effort on the wrong and deadly things.
lkbm 3y ago
This can't explain the data shown in the article. It shows US mortality for the richest decile of Americans on par with the poorest decile of Europeans, and far below middle- and upper-income Europeans.
GlibMonkeyDeath 3y ago
It's not even mostly chronic low income. Look at Figure 3 in this paper https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2104684118 https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2104684118 Across all income levels, USA lags Europe. In 1990, the wealthiest white Americans had the same deaths/1000 Age 20-64 as Europeans, but a gap has opened up across ALL income levels since then. The gap does get larger as poverty increases, but it doesn't explain why all income levels are worse than Europe.
- GlibMonkeyDeath 3y ago
  Actually, let me correct myself - if you look at alpha in Fig 3 (the intercept at 0 poverty, or the very wealthiest) the death rate continues to drop in absolute terms for everyone - the death rate is only increasing in absolute terms among white Americans in the higher poverty index range (so the slope or beta is increasing with poverty as time goes on.) So poverty.

tptacek 3y ago

Do you see the article saying that, and, if so, where?

trashface 3y ago
No, I didn't read it again. I read it last year when matt first wrote it (its a year old). My impression is he is generally out of touch with this issue and other income-related issues, he needs to get out of DC more.
- tptacek 3y ago
  He's reporting other people's statistical analysis of life expectancy; should they get out of DC more, too?

brigadier132 3y ago

> Low income = lower quality diet I don't buy it. Most of Europe has lower income than the US but the quality of their food is just vastly superior. Just watch this video https://www.instagram.com/reel/CtzaSnGMIEN/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA%3D%3D https://www.instagram.com/reel/CtzaSnGMIEN/?igshid=MzRlODBiN... I suspect it's a combination of low quality food and not walking.

mym1990 3y ago
You really can’t compare the income levels without factoring the actual system that Europeans live in. Most Europeans don’t have a car, healthcare is subsidized, food is cheaper, +50 other things that are different. A European coming to the US on a European salary would not thrive.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  I’ve never seen food being cheaper in Europe. Maybe eating out, but grocery store prices in France and Germany always seemed a bit high to me, though a bargain compared to Switzerland.
SimplyUnknown 3y ago
Most Europeans also have a lower cost of living. So maybe the correct metric is average purchasing power, which goes down if the wages go down (that said, maybe only when viewed for lower or middle class incomes. It could be that rich become as much richer as the poor are becoming poorer, yielding zero change in purchasing power on average)
rascul 3y ago
> > Low income = lower quality diet > I don't buy it. Most of Europe has lower income than the US but the quality of their food is just vastly superior. I don't buy it either. I don't know about the Europe comparison, but there's plenty of high quality food available for low cost in the US. I notice many people just fill up with crappy box goods or fast food though.
tzs 3y ago
It's a bit counterintuitive but is probably kind of correct. Low income does not per se mean lower quality diet in the US. In fact, a healthy diet based on high quality food can be less expensive than a less health lower quality food based diet. However sources of high quality inexpensive foods are not evenly distributed. Many a low income neighborhood does not have a grocery store that caries such things. Many only have convenience stores like 7-11. Often those neighborhoods also don't have good and affordable public transit making it had for many residents to get to a real grocery store. And so there will be a tendency for lower income to result in a lower quality diet. These places where people have food access limits inside of countries that mostly have pretty good distribution are called "food deserts", and they are not just in the US [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_deserts_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_deserts_by_country

nayuki 3y ago

Personal income is just a claim on other people's goods and services. How would higher income fix problems like car crashes, gun violence, and drug overdoses? I'd argue that people are spending time and effort on the wrong and deadly things.

lkbm 3y ago

This can't explain the data shown in the article. It shows US mortality for the richest decile of Americans on par with the poorest decile of Europeans, and far below middle- and upper-income Europeans.

GlibMonkeyDeath 3y ago

It's not even mostly chronic low income. Look at Figure 3 in this paper https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2104684118 https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2104684118 Across all income levels, USA lags Europe. In 1990, the wealthiest white Americans had the same deaths/1000 Age 20-64 as Europeans, but a gap has opened up across ALL income levels since then. The gap does get larger as poverty increases, but it doesn't explain why all income levels are worse than Europe.

GlibMonkeyDeath 3y ago
Actually, let me correct myself - if you look at alpha in Fig 3 (the intercept at 0 poverty, or the very wealthiest) the death rate continues to drop in absolute terms for everyone - the death rate is only increasing in absolute terms among white Americans in the higher poverty index range (so the slope or beta is increasing with poverty as time goes on.) So poverty.