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> The people at Twitter who understood the system and could predict the side effects were all fired or left. This is like a case study in what happens when you

> The people at Twitter who understood the system and could predict the side effects were all fired or left. This is like a case study in what happens when you fire everyone except the sycophants and yes-men. I only feel sorry for remaining non-yes-men twitter employees who might still be there because for whatever personal reasons they're in a precarious economic situation where they can't quit (H1B?) or are tied to the company for healthcare coverage (Thanks, America, for being the greatest country in the world) because they can't afford any other health insurance option.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
julesqs 3y ago
to be fair i would guess that a lot of the engineers there are also stuck because of visa issues. plenty of sychophants too i’m sure.
- alsetmusic 3y ago
  That’s what they meant about H1B. https://www.google.com/search?q=h1b+visa https://www.google.com/search?q=h1b+visa
mensetmanusman 3y ago
Yeah I wish Obama care had simply been: 'employer provided healthcare is illegal in 2024'
- Travis_Pastrami 3y ago
  I don't see how that would be any better than what we have now. If employer provided healthcare was removed, that would leave us with a bunch of private healthcare companies. These private companies would drive up the cost even more. If an affordable or free healthcare option was offered on top of making employer provided healthcare illegal, then I completely am behind your idea.
  - photonbeam 3y ago
    Its not a given that prices would increase Look at how these systems work in other countries
    - ekianjo 3y ago
      Sounds like you have no clue about whats happening in other countries
      - zer0tonin 3y ago
        Well let me enlighten you, as someone who doesn't live in america. I pay a bit less than 150 euros a months in health insurance in the Netherlands. It is not tied to my employer in any way. If I was poor I could ask for those payments to be subsidized by the state. If I am sick I can just get an appointment with my GP within the day and not pay a thing, they can refer me to specialists or blood tests if needed, which are also fast and free. The remaining healthcare costs for medications or dentistry are so low I don't even notice them. Hope this will shed some light to you about what's happening in other countries.
        patrec 3y ago
        The problem with the above account is that the 150 euros you claim to pay per month for health "insurance" is transparently a fantasy number, and in reality you probably pay closer to an order of magnitude more into the Dutch health system.
        ben_w 3y ago
        According to wikipedia: > Funding for all short-term health care is 50% from employers, 45% from the insured person and 5% by the government. … > Premiums paid by the insured are, on average, €137 per month for basic health care - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_the_Netherlands https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_the_Netherlands Only an order of magnitude if you're in base-2. That said, this doesn't quite track with the numbers for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_hea... and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_dollar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_dollar But even then, counting all payers and not just the residents' sticker price, the USA is the high-priced outlier.
- saboot 3y ago
  That wasn't possible, having Lieberman's vote was required, and he said no to anything like that
  - 88913527 3y ago
    Plus, health care spending is like >10% of GDP. You don't rewrite the rules like that with upsetting a great deal of corporate interests. An appreciable number of people benefit from all the inefficiency in delivering health care.
    - autoexec 3y ago
      > An appreciable number of people benefit from all the inefficiency in delivering health care. Not anything close the the number of people who suffer from the all the inefficiency in delivering health care, but guess which has more money to bribe lawmakers with
- eastbound 3y ago
  Meanwhile, France made mutuelle (half of the healthcare) mandatorily paid by employers. When you leave, you can keep it for a time, but it’s essentially paid by the employer…
williamsmj 3y ago
> This is like a case study in what happens when you fire everyone except the sycophants and yes-men. The initial and biggest waves of layoffs last year were of people who hadn’t yet had a chance to demonstrate whether they were or were not sycophants. They were essentially random.
- yawaramin 3y ago
  'Random layoffs'--sounds like a model of great management!
- in_cahoots 3y ago
  I don’t think that’s true at all. Elon allowed any employee who wanted to quit with three months’ severance. Anyone who wasn’t a true believer and had options could have quit.
  - martin8412 3y ago
    Last I checked, he hadn't paid a single dime of that promised severance.
- wpietri 3y ago
  You're correct that they could have also fired some sycophants. But that doesn't mean the current proportion of sycophants is any lower. I should also add that Musk's management methods are likely to turn any remaining people in to yes men. E.g., his "demon mode" routine: https://fortune.com/2023/06/29/elon-musk-demon-mode-rip-people-apart-walter-isaacson-biographer-shadowed-2-years/ https://fortune.com/2023/06/29/elon-musk-demon-mode-rip-peop...

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

julesqs 3y ago

to be fair i would guess that a lot of the engineers there are also stuck because of visa issues. plenty of sychophants too i’m sure.

alsetmusic 3y ago
That’s what they meant about H1B. https://www.google.com/search?q=h1b+visa https://www.google.com/search?q=h1b+visa

mensetmanusman 3y ago

Yeah I wish Obama care had simply been: 'employer provided healthcare is illegal in 2024'

Travis_Pastrami 3y ago
I don't see how that would be any better than what we have now. If employer provided healthcare was removed, that would leave us with a bunch of private healthcare companies. These private companies would drive up the cost even more. If an affordable or free healthcare option was offered on top of making employer provided healthcare illegal, then I completely am behind your idea.
- photonbeam 3y ago
  Its not a given that prices would increase Look at how these systems work in other countries
  - ekianjo 3y ago
    Sounds like you have no clue about whats happening in other countries
    - zer0tonin 3y ago
      Well let me enlighten you, as someone who doesn't live in america. I pay a bit less than 150 euros a months in health insurance in the Netherlands. It is not tied to my employer in any way. If I was poor I could ask for those payments to be subsidized by the state. If I am sick I can just get an appointment with my GP within the day and not pay a thing, they can refer me to specialists or blood tests if needed, which are also fast and free. The remaining healthcare costs for medications or dentistry are so low I don't even notice them. Hope this will shed some light to you about what's happening in other countries.
      - patrec 3y ago
        The problem with the above account is that the 150 euros you claim to pay per month for health "insurance" is transparently a fantasy number, and in reality you probably pay closer to an order of magnitude more into the Dutch health system.
        ben_w 3y ago
        According to wikipedia: > Funding for all short-term health care is 50% from employers, 45% from the insured person and 5% by the government. … > Premiums paid by the insured are, on average, €137 per month for basic health care - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_the_Netherlands https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_the_Netherlands Only an order of magnitude if you're in base-2. That said, this doesn't quite track with the numbers for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_hea... and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_dollar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_dollar But even then, counting all payers and not just the residents' sticker price, the USA is the high-priced outlier.
saboot 3y ago
That wasn't possible, having Lieberman's vote was required, and he said no to anything like that
- 88913527 3y ago
  Plus, health care spending is like >10% of GDP. You don't rewrite the rules like that with upsetting a great deal of corporate interests. An appreciable number of people benefit from all the inefficiency in delivering health care.
  - autoexec 3y ago
    > An appreciable number of people benefit from all the inefficiency in delivering health care. Not anything close the the number of people who suffer from the all the inefficiency in delivering health care, but guess which has more money to bribe lawmakers with
eastbound 3y ago
Meanwhile, France made mutuelle (half of the healthcare) mandatorily paid by employers. When you leave, you can keep it for a time, but it’s essentially paid by the employer…

williamsmj 3y ago

> This is like a case study in what happens when you fire everyone except the sycophants and yes-men. The initial and biggest waves of layoffs last year were of people who hadn’t yet had a chance to demonstrate whether they were or were not sycophants. They were essentially random.

yawaramin 3y ago
'Random layoffs'--sounds like a model of great management!
in_cahoots 3y ago
I don’t think that’s true at all. Elon allowed any employee who wanted to quit with three months’ severance. Anyone who wasn’t a true believer and had options could have quit.
- martin8412 3y ago
  Last I checked, he hadn't paid a single dime of that promised severance.
wpietri 3y ago
You're correct that they could have also fired some sycophants. But that doesn't mean the current proportion of sycophants is any lower. I should also add that Musk's management methods are likely to turn any remaining people in to yes men. E.g., his "demon mode" routine: https://fortune.com/2023/06/29/elon-musk-demon-mode-rip-people-apart-walter-isaacson-biographer-shadowed-2-years/ https://fortune.com/2023/06/29/elon-musk-demon-mode-rip-peop...