6 ms·

If you don't have SWAT, there's no swatting. Part of the problem here is catching the swatters, but the other part of the problem is "don't respond with an atta

If you don't have SWAT, there's no swatting. Part of the problem here is catching the swatters, but the other part of the problem is "don't respond with an attack force for something that in normal countries just has regular police show up to figure out what's even going on".

stefantalpalaru 3y ago
[dead]
themitigating 3y ago
What happened to "back the blue"
- aaomidi 3y ago
  I support USPS workers
  - nickpeterson 3y ago
    I like to pretend the song ‘X gon give it to ya’ is really about fedex workers making deliveries.
- naikrovek 3y ago
  the "blue" are too often unworthy of being backed, these days. the number of stories that I read per day about bad police officers is insane. there are too many people in law enforcement positions because they want authority and power over others. lately I find myself believing that anyone who desires to be in law enforcement should be forbidden from ever having authority over anyone, in any form.
  - jjtheblunt 3y ago
    > the number of stories that I read per day about bad police officers is insane. Do you ever read stories about good police officers? Are such stories so scandalous they can sell advertising space en masse? I think that your wording implies an accidental oversight.
    - autoexec 3y ago
      > Do you ever read stories about good police officers? I could do 10 really nice things a day for you all week long, but if on Saturday I rape your whole family you're not going be happy with me. This isn't about keeping score, it's about making sure that things that should never happen don't, and that when things do go wrong the police are held accountable for their actions, and meaningful steps are taken to prevent situations like that from happening again. Cops don't get to save up enough "nice points" that they still get our support after they murder one of us and get away with it again, and again, and again. Once the problems that allow the abuses by police to persist start to be addressed trust between the police and the people they've been abusing will improve, but until that happens, the "good cops" who are sitting in a barrel full of rotten apples will just have be patient with us when we're embittered and skeptical after seeing example after example, week after week, of what the "bad cops" have been doing.
    - eyelidlessness 3y ago
      If you’re not asking as a gotcha, “good police” stories are a dime a dozen. You can routinely catch them on the evening news, and they frequently rise to national news as well. Practically no other profession gets such exceedingly positive and prolific press for doing the most charitable version of their job description. You never see stories like “trash collector relieves neighborhood of unwanted refuse without crushing anyone in the compactor”, even though their job is more dangerous and much less controversially beneficial to society. The reason there’s even an appetite for “stories about good police officers” is specifically as a counterpoint to the continuous story of cops behaving badly, either by their direct action or pointed inaction, or by their collective activity to protect other cops from scrutiny when they directly do harm. If cops want a better rep, they could be more deserving by not doing bad things and protecting other cops who do the same. If they don’t want to do that professionally (understandably! actually good cops are afraid of retaliation, or become afraid when they exercise their principles and find out what the consequences entail), they are always welcome to leave the profession. Admittedly there should be a better support system for cops who want to change careers for these reasons. But there isn’t a lot of demand for that so
    - godelski 3y ago
- Conscat 3y ago
  [flagged]
MaxHoppersGhost 3y ago
Easy to say but if you’re actually being held hostage or someone is threatening to murder you you won’t want a couple of cops with billy clubs and mental health assessments to show up. Swat teams need to be better at assessing which events are swatting attempts vs the real thing. We also need to do a better job of finding the swatters and sending them to jail.
- cyberbanjo 3y ago
  How much more often does injury from police happen than kidnapping?
- autoexec 3y ago
  Do hostage takers usually murder their only leverage as soon as a cop car pulls up? Certainly if someone has broken into my house trying to murder me, I'd be thrilled with two armed regular old officers showing up at my door to investigate the situation. I'm sure there are situations where a swat team is genuinely needed, but I'm also sure those cases make up an extremely small percentage of the times they're actually used. In any case, if police are called out to an innocent person's house and they kill the innocent people there it shows pure incompetence on the part of the officers involved. A little restraint and a lot more training would probably go a long way to preventing tragedy.
- MichaelDickens 3y ago
  The specific thing that makes swatting a useful harassment tactic is that SWAT teams don't handle situations with subtlety and deftness. The sort of police who someone could use to harass me with a false report are the exact sort of police I wouldn't want around if I was being held hostage.
- TheRealPomax 3y ago
  Ah yes, that thing that is super duper common in normal countries. Hostage situations. Can't order a coffee without someone being taken hostage. If only there was some way to make sure people didn't just have access to the weapons they need to successfully perpetrate a hostage situation... almost as if the glorification of weapons and the military is at the core of this eh?
ApolloFortyNine 3y ago
Most swattings aren't the actual swat team but the police. A lot of streamers don't go to deep into it to not draw attention to it, but both ludwig and summits swattings were just cops. Sometimes the cop does pull a gun, but it's honestly why this should be attempted murder. How do you blame the cop for pulling the gun on someone who was reported to already have killed 4 people and said they were going to kill another. The alternative is basically ignoring all threats pretending they're fake, putting the cops lives in danger in a real situation.
- paxys 3y ago
  Which is even worse. Regular police officers with a high school diploma and a few weeks worth of training (if even that) showing up at your door with military surplus equipment wanting to play hero.
  - lockhouse 3y ago
    > Regular police officers with a high school diploma That's an odd take. What would a college degree bring to the table for a regular beat cop/patrolman? > showing up at your door with military surplus equipment wanting to play hero What education level do you think a typical military service member has to wield the same equipment? https://www.statista.com/statistics/232726/education-levels-of-active-duty-us-defense-force-personnel/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/232726/education-levels-... Also, US Army Infantry training is only 22 weeks long.
    - alistairSH 3y ago
      Mississippi requires only 10 weeks. Many states are around 20. Soldiers aren’t armed in the normal course of a day on base. Massive difference. Fact is American police are under-trained and over-armed.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
    - 3y ago
Morluche 3y ago
I think most countries have their equivalent, you have some keywords that make the call be handle by the highest force possible I guess

stefantalpalaru 3y ago

[dead]

themitigating 3y ago

What happened to "back the blue"

aaomidi 3y ago
I support USPS workers
- nickpeterson 3y ago
  I like to pretend the song ‘X gon give it to ya’ is really about fedex workers making deliveries.
naikrovek 3y ago
the "blue" are too often unworthy of being backed, these days. the number of stories that I read per day about bad police officers is insane. there are too many people in law enforcement positions because they want authority and power over others. lately I find myself believing that anyone who desires to be in law enforcement should be forbidden from ever having authority over anyone, in any form.
- jjtheblunt 3y ago
  > the number of stories that I read per day about bad police officers is insane. Do you ever read stories about good police officers? Are such stories so scandalous they can sell advertising space en masse? I think that your wording implies an accidental oversight.
  - autoexec 3y ago
    > Do you ever read stories about good police officers? I could do 10 really nice things a day for you all week long, but if on Saturday I rape your whole family you're not going be happy with me. This isn't about keeping score, it's about making sure that things that should never happen don't, and that when things do go wrong the police are held accountable for their actions, and meaningful steps are taken to prevent situations like that from happening again. Cops don't get to save up enough "nice points" that they still get our support after they murder one of us and get away with it again, and again, and again. Once the problems that allow the abuses by police to persist start to be addressed trust between the police and the people they've been abusing will improve, but until that happens, the "good cops" who are sitting in a barrel full of rotten apples will just have be patient with us when we're embittered and skeptical after seeing example after example, week after week, of what the "bad cops" have been doing.
  - eyelidlessness 3y ago
    If you’re not asking as a gotcha, “good police” stories are a dime a dozen. You can routinely catch them on the evening news, and they frequently rise to national news as well. Practically no other profession gets such exceedingly positive and prolific press for doing the most charitable version of their job description. You never see stories like “trash collector relieves neighborhood of unwanted refuse without crushing anyone in the compactor”, even though their job is more dangerous and much less controversially beneficial to society. The reason there’s even an appetite for “stories about good police officers” is specifically as a counterpoint to the continuous story of cops behaving badly, either by their direct action or pointed inaction, or by their collective activity to protect other cops from scrutiny when they directly do harm. If cops want a better rep, they could be more deserving by not doing bad things and protecting other cops who do the same. If they don’t want to do that professionally (understandably! actually good cops are afraid of retaliation, or become afraid when they exercise their principles and find out what the consequences entail), they are always welcome to leave the profession. Admittedly there should be a better support system for cops who want to change careers for these reasons. But there isn’t a lot of demand for that so
  - godelski 3y ago
Conscat 3y ago
[flagged]

MaxHoppersGhost 3y ago

Easy to say but if you’re actually being held hostage or someone is threatening to murder you you won’t want a couple of cops with billy clubs and mental health assessments to show up. Swat teams need to be better at assessing which events are swatting attempts vs the real thing. We also need to do a better job of finding the swatters and sending them to jail.

cyberbanjo 3y ago
How much more often does injury from police happen than kidnapping?
autoexec 3y ago
Do hostage takers usually murder their only leverage as soon as a cop car pulls up? Certainly if someone has broken into my house trying to murder me, I'd be thrilled with two armed regular old officers showing up at my door to investigate the situation. I'm sure there are situations where a swat team is genuinely needed, but I'm also sure those cases make up an extremely small percentage of the times they're actually used. In any case, if police are called out to an innocent person's house and they kill the innocent people there it shows pure incompetence on the part of the officers involved. A little restraint and a lot more training would probably go a long way to preventing tragedy.
MichaelDickens 3y ago
The specific thing that makes swatting a useful harassment tactic is that SWAT teams don't handle situations with subtlety and deftness. The sort of police who someone could use to harass me with a false report are the exact sort of police I wouldn't want around if I was being held hostage.
TheRealPomax 3y ago
Ah yes, that thing that is super duper common in normal countries. Hostage situations. Can't order a coffee without someone being taken hostage. If only there was some way to make sure people didn't just have access to the weapons they need to successfully perpetrate a hostage situation... almost as if the glorification of weapons and the military is at the core of this eh?

ApolloFortyNine 3y ago

Most swattings aren't the actual swat team but the police. A lot of streamers don't go to deep into it to not draw attention to it, but both ludwig and summits swattings were just cops. Sometimes the cop does pull a gun, but it's honestly why this should be attempted murder. How do you blame the cop for pulling the gun on someone who was reported to already have killed 4 people and said they were going to kill another. The alternative is basically ignoring all threats pretending they're fake, putting the cops lives in danger in a real situation.

paxys 3y ago
Which is even worse. Regular police officers with a high school diploma and a few weeks worth of training (if even that) showing up at your door with military surplus equipment wanting to play hero.
- lockhouse 3y ago
  > Regular police officers with a high school diploma That's an odd take. What would a college degree bring to the table for a regular beat cop/patrolman? > showing up at your door with military surplus equipment wanting to play hero What education level do you think a typical military service member has to wield the same equipment? https://www.statista.com/statistics/232726/education-levels-of-active-duty-us-defense-force-personnel/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/232726/education-levels-... Also, US Army Infantry training is only 22 weeks long.
  - alistairSH 3y ago
    Mississippi requires only 10 weeks. Many states are around 20. Soldiers aren’t armed in the normal course of a day on base. Massive difference. Fact is American police are under-trained and over-armed.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - 3y ago

Morluche 3y ago

I think most countries have their equivalent, you have some keywords that make the call be handle by the highest force possible I guess