7 ms·

If you're wondering why it's so expensive, it's a confluence of factors: - Making things in the us is expensive. This isn't the root cause but leads to the nex

If you're wondering why it's so expensive, it's a confluence of factors: - Making things in the us is expensive. This isn't the root cause but leads to the next point... - Phones are low margin devices. Most consumers are intensely price sensitive. Even if a US-made phone cost only $40 more, it'd still be at a serious disadvantage. - Therefore, there's no point in competing on price. The batch size of this is limited. Manufacturing has limited advantage of scale. They need to find another hook for value-add. - And thus, a huge part of the value add of this device is that it's certified "secure", and with a traceable supply chain. They will probably sell a reasonable amount of these, to interested parties, but this is not likely to be a profit center for them. It's as much as a real attempt at achieving their goals, as it is marketing that furthers their "privacy/integrity" branding goals. Marketing with a real and good product behind it is a great move if you can pull it off, and they seem to be doing a great job!

johnea 3y ago
I guess if the priority is "branding goals", maybe this was a logical choice. Personally, I'd prefer they got their existing phone working well...
pedalpete 3y ago
Assembly in the US is expensive, and what is the benefit to the end user? We're looking at manufacturing hardware, and considering Mexico for assembly (if anyone has experience with this, please let me know). Our initial thinking is 1) lower cost than the US 2) geographically closer 2a) lower environmental footprint in shipping 2b) quicker time from assembly to customer 2c) easier to visit the factories, solve problems, manage the relationship 3) the obvious geopolitical/tax/duty implications I wonder if Purism would have as much impact with Made in the USA, as they would with Made in North America? Or even Made in The Americas - if there are other countries outside of Mexico and Canada that have the requisite manufacturing capabilities.
- 0xfai 3y ago
  In our current climate more so than just the supply chain oversight that some customers will want and the other customers that will pay a premium to support an alternative to Google/Apple, also unless you are a massive corporation, you are at the back of the line for procurement of components and assembly. The big folks are feeling it too. Localized supply chain is critical to making sure we can have nice things going forward. Some people are willing to put the money up. Mexico is a very solid place to look. In fact I think over the next five years our partnership with Mexico for manufacturing is going to explode. They have the people and facilities to do the work and are our neighbors. Purism though, with what they are doing. Like OP at the top of the thread said, is making a statement, and a powerful one, by doing what they are doing and it's part of their mission because they are making phones and people, correctly, have a lot of anxiety about their current ad slabs. I think your reasoning for Mexico manufacture is on point and you'll really see rewards establishing that production relationship. If you don't mind me asking, what are you building? Your username says to me guitar pedals. Link?
  - pedalpete 3y ago
    We're building an EEG headband that improves the efficiency of deep sleep (https://soundmind.co https://soundmind.co) Pedal handle is like bike, not guitar, though I recently started playing guitar. I've never heard somebody suggest a guitar, I usually have people ask "why are you nicknamed after a flower" (PetalPete) :)
    - 0xfai 3y ago
      That is absolutely fascinating. I've spent over a decade doing R&D for computer interface. I've played with EEG off and on. I've done a lot with myoelectrics. I spend a lot of time trying to find color, light, sound, and rhythm that sum up stressful light up rectangles into a more human mode. I'm super curious about your manufacturing journey and your product. No pressure on response turnover or really any larger goal, but would you mind if I email you some time? I think we might have some overlaps that make for enriching conversation.
      - 3y ago
- brians 3y ago
  I’ve routinely had pallets of servers messed with while in Mexican customs lockup; RAM and drives were replaced. Badly. Until that sort of thing is fixed, it’s not helpful for manufacturing trustworthy devices.
  - copperx 3y ago
    Could you tells us more about that experience? It's intriguing.
microtherion 3y ago
Even if you were to buy into the proposition that "made in the USA" delivers any extra security, the foreign made SOC is such an enormous part of the overall system IMHO that everything else is nearly meaningless. And their table has several rows about PCBs, but do they build their own cameras? If not, where do they source them from? What about microphones and speakers? [Disclaimer: My employer manufactures phones; I don't speak for them, nor do I work in phone hardware]
- redroyal 3y ago
  Right unless they wrote the RTL and fabbed themselves, verified the netlist and compared to the golden master and shipped it securely, all the rest of the efforts likely don’t provide much more than a false sense of security. In fact you’re much likely better off using a reflashed Pixel 5a. I don’t like this kind of product. I think it’s exploiting the paranoid and creating the belief that privacy is obtainable in 2023 which it absolutely is not.
  - moate 3y ago
    Privacy is gone if you need to exist digitally in any way, so I agree that your goal should be just not drawing attention to yourself.

johnea 3y ago

I guess if the priority is "branding goals", maybe this was a logical choice. Personally, I'd prefer they got their existing phone working well...

pedalpete 3y ago

Assembly in the US is expensive, and what is the benefit to the end user? We're looking at manufacturing hardware, and considering Mexico for assembly (if anyone has experience with this, please let me know). Our initial thinking is 1) lower cost than the US 2) geographically closer 2a) lower environmental footprint in shipping 2b) quicker time from assembly to customer 2c) easier to visit the factories, solve problems, manage the relationship 3) the obvious geopolitical/tax/duty implications I wonder if Purism would have as much impact with Made in the USA, as they would with Made in North America? Or even Made in The Americas - if there are other countries outside of Mexico and Canada that have the requisite manufacturing capabilities.

0xfai 3y ago
In our current climate more so than just the supply chain oversight that some customers will want and the other customers that will pay a premium to support an alternative to Google/Apple, also unless you are a massive corporation, you are at the back of the line for procurement of components and assembly. The big folks are feeling it too. Localized supply chain is critical to making sure we can have nice things going forward. Some people are willing to put the money up. Mexico is a very solid place to look. In fact I think over the next five years our partnership with Mexico for manufacturing is going to explode. They have the people and facilities to do the work and are our neighbors. Purism though, with what they are doing. Like OP at the top of the thread said, is making a statement, and a powerful one, by doing what they are doing and it's part of their mission because they are making phones and people, correctly, have a lot of anxiety about their current ad slabs. I think your reasoning for Mexico manufacture is on point and you'll really see rewards establishing that production relationship. If you don't mind me asking, what are you building? Your username says to me guitar pedals. Link?
- pedalpete 3y ago
  We're building an EEG headband that improves the efficiency of deep sleep (https://soundmind.co https://soundmind.co) Pedal handle is like bike, not guitar, though I recently started playing guitar. I've never heard somebody suggest a guitar, I usually have people ask "why are you nicknamed after a flower" (PetalPete) :)
  - 0xfai 3y ago
    That is absolutely fascinating. I've spent over a decade doing R&D for computer interface. I've played with EEG off and on. I've done a lot with myoelectrics. I spend a lot of time trying to find color, light, sound, and rhythm that sum up stressful light up rectangles into a more human mode. I'm super curious about your manufacturing journey and your product. No pressure on response turnover or really any larger goal, but would you mind if I email you some time? I think we might have some overlaps that make for enriching conversation.
    - 3y ago
brians 3y ago
I’ve routinely had pallets of servers messed with while in Mexican customs lockup; RAM and drives were replaced. Badly. Until that sort of thing is fixed, it’s not helpful for manufacturing trustworthy devices.
- copperx 3y ago
  Could you tells us more about that experience? It's intriguing.

microtherion 3y ago

Even if you were to buy into the proposition that "made in the USA" delivers any extra security, the foreign made SOC is such an enormous part of the overall system IMHO that everything else is nearly meaningless. And their table has several rows about PCBs, but do they build their own cameras? If not, where do they source them from? What about microphones and speakers? [Disclaimer: My employer manufactures phones; I don't speak for them, nor do I work in phone hardware]

redroyal 3y ago
Right unless they wrote the RTL and fabbed themselves, verified the netlist and compared to the golden master and shipped it securely, all the rest of the efforts likely don’t provide much more than a false sense of security. In fact you’re much likely better off using a reflashed Pixel 5a. I don’t like this kind of product. I think it’s exploiting the paranoid and creating the belief that privacy is obtainable in 2023 which it absolutely is not.
- moate 3y ago
  Privacy is gone if you need to exist digitally in any way, so I agree that your goal should be just not drawing attention to yourself.