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The Liberty Phone
- _rdvw 3y agoReminder that the SoC in this is 2,368 days old: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I.MX#i.MX_8M https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I.MX#i.MX_8M
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- johnea 3y ago> Introducing the Liberty Phone with more RAM and more drive space, starting at $2199. > The Liberty Phone integrates 4GB of RAM and 128GB of internal storage. $2200? Is this a joke? A typo?
- wilsonnb3 3y agoMaking stuff in the US ain’t cheap
- silisili 3y agoGoogle for a brief time assembled Moto in Texas. It wasn't outrageously priced.
- RIMR 3y agoGoogle has the money to take a loss if it means getting product out the door faster than Apple.
- hdidhdid 3y agogoogle doesn't take losses on smart phones. only home devices proof: see profit margins on all pixels/nexus. they either use cheap components in flagship models, or partner with someone a la apple and break then to build phones at their loss (see: htc, moto)
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- tekla 3y agoEveryone wants to pay for US labor until the final price tag appears.
- imwillofficial 3y agoThis is the actual amount stuff costs when not using babies to assemble. I’m cool with it
- smokeypanda 3y agoI'm sure economies of scale would bring down the price somewhat if the majority of the industry's manufacturing was done in developed countries.
- johnea 3y agoYou're convinced that assembly in the US doesn't involve babies?
- imwillofficial 3y agoI couldn’t possibly begin to disprove or prove that. What I can say is we have decently strong childhood labor laws which other developing countries do not, and that fact is exploited to drive down costs and increase profits.
- gbba 3y agoIt's meant to run GNU Linux instead of Android, so maybe the 4GB RAM might be ok? Definitely not enough if this was running Android. RAM usage on my Android right now: - 2.1 GB Android OS - 1.0 GB Google - 0.5 GB Android System - 0.5 GB Firefox - 0.4 GB Android System Intelligence - 0.4 GB System UI - 0.4 GB Google Play services ... and a bunch more < 0.1 GB services that seem necessary
- mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y agoAndroid really shat on, set fire to and salted one of my favourite things about Linux in this regard. I.e, how few resources I can give it and still be productive. Hell, I'm gonna assert right now that if Android didn't waste such gobs of memory, I could still be doing the... oh, about 4 or 5 things a phone is actually useful for, on hardware equivalent to the SGS1. I know, because I did all those things on the SGS1 and it worked fine. Seriously, what the fuck happened?
- supertrope 3y agoThat's the difference between GNU/Linux and Android. Android uses Java because there's an existing market of Java developers. Java does not have much inherent overhead but like any tool with a lower barrier to entry a lot of lower quality software hits the market. Optimizing for time to market by each company's app team is where the wheels come off the bus. People expect software to be free or $0.99. Companies are pushing the technical limits on how much data can be mined bloating their apps. Android is fragmented across diverse hardware, operating system versions, and cellular carrier permutations making testing and QA a much harder problem.
- goolz 3y agoHappy to pay that price if I can have some gaurentees slaves and children did not assemble them. A new, maxed out, unlocked iPhone approaches $1500 pretty quickly. And I would be willing to guess some indentured “workers” put them together.
- Arnavion 3y agoThat iPhone will also run circles around this phone in every performance metric.
- goolz 3y agoSure but are you really pushing the performance of your phone? More power to you if so. I do game programming and rarely need to utilize super new features (unless AR related, but even then I could get by with a few gens back). For me personally peace of mind and not supporting slavery in worth the downgrade.
- the-grump 3y agohttps://puri.sm/products/liberty-phone/ https://puri.sm/products/liberty-phone/ Quote: "All the electronics of the Liberty Phone is made in our USA facility, and the entire phone is assembled in the USA" Table of origin says: WiFi Card India Both can't be true.
- ramesh31 3y agoAssembled, sure. I can promise you the chips are not being made in the US.
- the-grump 3y agoThey claim the chips are US-made (with a typo and using unclear language), but then the table of origin says something different. It doesn't inspire confidence. Agreed that there is no way the same facility is manufacturing the chips and handling assembly as implied by their language
- bryancoxwell 3y agoThat’s not quite what they claim. I’ll grant you it is confusing wording though. The paragraphs above the table of origin say: > We use US companies with US fabrication whenever possible. Most distributors are based in the US with the exception of large integrated circuits that are made in a variety of countries where those companies do fabrication (US, Taiwan, South Korea, Japan); an example is the NXP CPU we use from their fabrication in South Korea.
- the-grump 3y agoThat is clearer and more believable. I'm going by the language on the page I shared. (Yes I'm aware your quote is from the same page). "All the electronics of the Liberty Phone is made in our USA facility" tells me that they are manufacturing all the components at the same facility, which beggars belief.
- 3y ago
- parl_match 3y agoIf you're wondering why it's so expensive, it's a confluence of factors: - Making things in the us is expensive. This isn't the root cause but leads to the next point... - Phones are low margin devices. Most consumers are intensely price sensitive. Even if a US-made phone cost only $40 more, it'd still be at a serious disadvantage. - Therefore, there's no point in competing on price. The batch size of this is limited. Manufacturing has limited advantage of scale. They need to find another hook for value-add. - And thus, a huge part of the value add of this device is that it's certified "secure", and with a traceable supply chain. They will probably sell a reasonable amount of these, to interested parties, but this is not likely to be a profit center for them. It's as much as a real attempt at achieving their goals, as it is marketing that furthers their "privacy/integrity" branding goals. Marketing with a real and good product behind it is a great move if you can pull it off, and they seem to be doing a great job!
- johnea 3y agoI guess if the priority is "branding goals", maybe this was a logical choice. Personally, I'd prefer they got their existing phone working well...
- pedalpete 3y agoAssembly in the US is expensive, and what is the benefit to the end user? We're looking at manufacturing hardware, and considering Mexico for assembly (if anyone has experience with this, please let me know). Our initial thinking is 1) lower cost than the US 2) geographically closer 2a) lower environmental footprint in shipping 2b) quicker time from assembly to customer 2c) easier to visit the factories, solve problems, manage the relationship 3) the obvious geopolitical/tax/duty implications I wonder if Purism would have as much impact with Made in the USA, as they would with Made in North America? Or even Made in The Americas - if there are other countries outside of Mexico and Canada that have the requisite manufacturing capabilities.
- 0xfai 3y agoIn our current climate more so than just the supply chain oversight that some customers will want and the other customers that will pay a premium to support an alternative to Google/Apple, also unless you are a massive corporation, you are at the back of the line for procurement of components and assembly. The big folks are feeling it too. Localized supply chain is critical to making sure we can have nice things going forward. Some people are willing to put the money up. Mexico is a very solid place to look. In fact I think over the next five years our partnership with Mexico for manufacturing is going to explode. They have the people and facilities to do the work and are our neighbors. Purism though, with what they are doing. Like OP at the top of the thread said, is making a statement, and a powerful one, by doing what they are doing and it's part of their mission because they are making phones and people, correctly, have a lot of anxiety about their current ad slabs. I think your reasoning for Mexico manufacture is on point and you'll really see rewards establishing that production relationship. If you don't mind me asking, what are you building? Your username says to me guitar pedals. Link?
- femiagbabiaka 3y agoDoesn't matter where the phone is from if you never get it.
- dxd 3y agoThat was my first thought when I saw it was from Purism
- fsflover 3y agoLibrem 5 USA is in stock, and original Librem 5 already has lead time of 6 weeks.
- femiagbabiaka 3y agoI ordered a Librem 5 in 2021 and haven’t received it. I asked for a refund in Feb 2023 and haven’t received that either. No need for lies.
- fsflover 3y agoNo need for lies. They just started delivery of 2021 orders: https://forums.puri.sm/t/estimate-your-librem-5-shipping/11272/1394 https://forums.puri.sm/t/estimate-your-librem-5-shipping/112.... All orders are expected to be fulfilled within 6 weeks: https://forums.puri.sm/t/estimate-your-librem-5-shipping/11272/1404 https://forums.puri.sm/t/estimate-your-librem-5-shipping/112...
- femiagbabiaka 3y agoAnd yet I’ve received no emails.. the idea that they’re ready to ship to new buyers in 6 weeks when existing ones have not been made whole says it all.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- syntaxing 3y agoCurious if they’re really trying to sell to consumers or hoping to get a large DoD contract. Wouldn’t be surprised if the US government would be interested in these if the NSA vets them.
- PrimeMcFly 3y agoI don't really care about the supply chain all being traced to being USA made. The USA is not a particularly trustworthy government, and in my experience auditing various US facilities, their physical security was always worse than many 'developing' nations. Only phone like this that seems good to me is the FairPhone, except it doesn't work that well in the US supposedly.
- meatjuice 3y agoNobody pays $2000 for a phone, even for the privacy. I’d buy Oculus Quest Pro, if I can use that $2000 for anything.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- rstat1 3y agoEh people do pay pretty close to $2k US for those phones with the stupid super fragile and gimmicky folding screens. No idea why.
- HWR_14 3y agoBecause they are really only $300 after finding them on sale or as a carrier promotion to switch and a trade in.
- rstat1 3y agoThe are people who do pay full price for phones. Not many, but they do exist.
- martin8412 3y agoI pay full price and don't do trade in. My old phones I usually pass on to family members after I've verified that everything has been migrated. When they go to my grandmother, it has the benefit of upsetting parts of the family, who get upset she gets something better than they have.
- maximinus_thrax 3y ago> I’d buy Oculus Quest Pro, if I can use that $2000 for anything. I don't get why you'd bring Oculus in this discussion. It's not a phone. And people already pay $2000 for phones. Not mainstream phones, but neither is this phone. Anyway, in terms of what people would do with $2000, I would rather set the cash on fire than give it to Facebook.
- coolgoose 3y agoI can only say lol. And most likely it's going to be shipped in 2042
- anyoneamous 3y agoFor $2200 and with this emphasis on secure supply chain, I'd want to watch the thing being built in person while the CEO feeds me grapes.
- CamperBob2 3y agoLOL, I'd want to build it myself at that price, with a hot-air tool and microscope. Like they used to offer a build-your-own engine program on the Corvette assembly line.
- aYsY4dDQ2NrcNzA 3y agoHuh, I never heard that about the Corvette. Cool. Apparently they're bringing it back this year.
- qingcharles 3y agoHe should feed me Freedom Fries®
- m463 3y agoI see - just like most recipes, the US version has added sugar.
- ooki 3y agoCPU: NXP® i.MX 8M Quad(single core: 729 pts, multi core: 2,154 pts) / RAM: 4GB / Storage: 128GB eMMC / Screen: 5.7″ IPS TFT 720×1440 / Bluetooth: Bluetooth 4 / NFC: No / Starting at $2,199. Serious?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- fsflover 3y agohttps://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Frequently-Asked-Questions#11-why-buy-the-librem-5 https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque...
- lyu07282 3y ago> All the electronics of the Liberty Phone are made in our USA facility, and the entire phone is assembled at that same facility, [...] By doing all electronics fabrication, assembly, and fulfillment within the same facility Purism can oversee each stage of the production. Reading this I just imagine a ASML machine, fabricating the wavers for their SoC, next to a photochemical vacuum bonding machine making the OLED screens. Absurd nonsense, I would be very surprised if they even have pick and place machines in their US factory, some hot glue guns at best.
- MartijnBraam 3y agoSo this seems like it's exactly the same as the Librem 5 but renamed, a different eMMC chip and a different RAM chip?
- seba_dos1 3y agoYes, it's an upgraded Librem 5 USA.
- cosmiccatnap 3y ago[flagged]
- squarefoot 3y ago"All the electronics of the Liberty Phone are made in our USA facility" Wait, do they have a fab now? No, seriously, I would never spend that money for a phone, not even if it was assembled by nude virgins and the nude virgins themselves were included in the package, but aside that, I totally would want to believe that claim (which would be huge if true) but I first want to see their fab.
- maybelsyrup 3y agoHell yes, it was just the other day I was thinking to myself “I wish I could feel like an American consumer approximately four months after 9/11”. Wish granted.
- gigel82 3y agoLOL, at some point I was taking this company serious. You are brazenly lying to everyone by saying the electronics are made in USA. Shameful!
- robertheadley 3y agoThat font is atrocious. At that Point size, the lower case r and lower case t look identical.
- cookiengineer 3y ago2200$ for a phone, which has wanky software support at its best. Come on, this is getting ridiculous. Phosh is nowhere stable, and these claims cannot be true with an 8 year old SoC from NXP. I get that made in USA is your brand and whatnot, but people expect a phone to be able to run google maps in the browser, and whatsapp, and instagram in parallel. If it turns off and reboots while doing that because it runs out of memory, you cannot claim it's a smartphone. Even the nokia 3310 generation phones could do that with WAP internet access and GPRS. Now it's more than 20 years later and people's expectations are way higher than back then. How many do you think will recommend a librem phone if your focus is now another not really supported platform instead of improving the software than runs it? If software is your problem (which I think it is) make it fundable directly. Allow people to support the software development directly, and start a foundation for that. But this 2200$ price tag when a competitor's product has more than 10x the featureset for half the price...there's a limit of what people can take.
- Shawnj2 3y agoThe main market for this would realistically the US government or government contractors if the US made some sort of rule requiring the government and contractors to use these types of phones
- Gigachad 3y agoSo the market doesn't even exist, but might exist if the government creates some hypothetical regulation which has no evidence will ever happen. The iphone is likely 1000x more secure than this phone and a much better choice for government workers.
- seba_dos1 3y agoI don't know why would I want to use Google Maps in a browser when there's Pure Maps, but I just tried and I can use it just fine on the base Librem 5 model with 3GB RAM. I also have several games installed on it, including even some Android games that work fine, so I don't get what you're talking about at all. Also, Nokia 3310 had no WAP and no GPRS. The next model, Nokia 3410, had WAP over CSD but no GPRS, and certainly wasn't suitable for anything like Google Maps which did not even exist back then. [edit] The parent has moved the goalposts quite far in a sneaky edit, but even the edited claims are pretty unreasonable. Of course there was IM running in the background and there was still plenty of free RAM left for something more, and no, "Nokia 3310 generation phones" couldn't do anything like that for at least a few more years :)
- lucabs 3y ago[dead]
- CrampusDestrus 3y agoa $2000 phone in 2023 that software-wise is light years behind the first iPhone in 2007
- fsflover 3y agoCould iPhone from 2007 run any software from GNU/Lunux repositories, connect to screen/keyboard turning into desktop, run without proprietary drivers and offer lifetime security updates?
- CrampusDestrus 3y agoIf your phone's only redeeming feature is that it runs desktop programs (badly) maybe you should reconsider its utility as a phone
- fsflover 3y agoWhy should I? It works fine as a phone and runs apps that I need sufficiently well (and is quickly getting even better). No other phone can do that. Example: desktop Firefox with all plugins. Yes, it scales to the small screen just fine. Can your 'smart'-phone do that? If not, maybe you should reconsider its utility as a smartphone.
- yonatan8070 3y agoThis entire post just screams "America! Fuck yeah!"
- crossroadsguy 3y agoGoodness. Consumer “secure phone” offerings at this point have started to feel like snake oil.
- nsonha 3y agoAdvice for people making the next Linux phone: be generous with specs. 4G of RAM is pathetic even for just a phone. For a LINUX phone, people want to plug it in a monitor and run desktop grade software on it, they don't just want the title linux for show. Then you can charge 2k!
- Hackbraten 3y agoI can imagine that this may be harder than it seems. - Most modern consumer-grade chips and SoCs have proprietary specs and closed-sourced drivers. It can be difficult to obtain drivers suitable for mainlining into Linux. - The automotive industry seems a good place to source parts with open specs. But for reasons I don’t understand, they seem to cling to absurdly old process sizes. - Higher-specced chipsets would potentially eat into profit margins even more, even though ongoing app/drivers/OS development is already expensive enough. Mostly speculation on my end but I think there are reasons for choosing lower-end specs somewhere in that zone.
- fsflover 3y agoThey have an article explaining some of the actual reasons: https://puri.sm/posts/breaking-ground/ https://puri.sm/posts/breaking-ground/
- ThinkBeat 3y ago>"All the electronics of the Liberty Phone is made in our USA facility, and the entire phone is assembled in the USA" There is no way in hell that is true if read it literally. I dont think anyone would do this at present. They would need a full fab and design team To make cpu, gpu, and ram (not sure how ram is produced to be honest) and all the rest. I think that is how most people will and are intended to see it. If you read it as marketing speak and tie it to the "Made in USA Electronics" badge and read up on the actual criteria to get it, it may be true. Lots of loopholes there.
- themoonisachees 3y agoNAND ram is just silicon. SK hynix and Samsung make most of it in their own fabs.
- purplesmoke 3y agoThe huge kicker about this is that the company pine64 already has a better, cheaper option with their line of the PinePhone and PinePhone Pro, which are designed exclusively for Linux and phosh experiences. With every upgrade they don't even scratch $600 a unit. At the very least, Purism is pricing themselves unfairly. Also with their past quality control failures with the Librem line, what faith should we have in the company that it will succeed?
- fsflover 3y agoPine64 do not write any software, and many operating systems on Pinephone actually use Phosh developed by Purism for Librem 5.