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> You seriously think the US can't get a few mercenaries inside Russia if they wanted to? This would be unbelievably risky... The mercenary might get caught af

> You seriously think the US can't get a few mercenaries inside Russia if they wanted to? This would be unbelievably risky... The mercenary might get caught afterwards, before, or just be a Russian double agent from the start. And if any of that happens, you'd give Putin a massive refueling on his bonfire of anti-western propaganda.

marcosdumay 3y ago
That never stopped any of those shady foreign-power agencies... but anyway, why do you think Putin needs actual facts to refuel his bonfire?
pessimizer 3y ago
> The mercenary might get caught afterwards, before, or just be a Russian double agent from the start. If you're going to make things up, it might be an entirely successful poisoning done by the girlfriend of the head of the gang, days after her mom's bills for cancer treatment were entirely paid off. Then, a rumor goes around that she killed him to get to a secret account, and the evidence is that her mom's bills were paid off mysteriously. Days later, she's found dead in an alley; people assume that she was a victim of another member of the gang - even the other members of the gang assume it, although no one is talking. Meanwhile, it was an agent that had been placed as a clerk at a local tax office, on his lunch break. If we're making things up.
LawTalkingGuy 3y ago
You wouldn't hire some ex US special forces person hiding in Russia in deep cover, like a movie. You'd hire local thugs who works as enforcers for a gang to simply grab these guys and shove them in a van and deliver them to a warehouse. These are cash-motivated criminals not ideological or patriotic fanatics. I imagine the interrogation would be like "You know why we captured you, right? Yes. Login and disable your entire network and live or we brutalize you until you do and then kill you. Ok." Especially if this was at a government level (ie, not private "loss prevention") you'd be able to tap the intel network for local criminals and things to hold over their heads to motivate them.
- gghffguhvc 3y ago
  Sounds about right. But they’d use a threat about loved ones as well.
- ozim 3y ago
  How do you make sure these people don’t take money and vanish? You tell them half payment before and half after? Then they leave with half and don’t do shit. You say well I’m going to pay you all after job is done. Well they say fuck you, pay half now or we are not lifting a finger you want something from us not that we want anything from you. Oh how do you track them down and beat them up if they are gone with your half payment? You hire next batch that do the same?
sgift 3y ago
You really think anyone who isn't already sucking up to him cares what Vlad is saying? The US could probably do anything in Russia right now short of using a dirty bomb (and even then, as long as there are no US markings ..) and nothing would change.
- Mountain_Skies 3y ago
  Yes, many care, just like they did during the Cold War when the US and USSR would battle for the hearts of non-aligned countries. Much of the world is wary of the United States and thinks it is an out-of-control bully that answers to no one. That Russia invaded Ukraine isn't unnoticed by these countries but that doesn't give the US a free pass to do whatever it wants, wherever it wants. Lots of countries would like to see the US embarrassed for its continued overreach and bullying of smaller countries. Trying to conduct covert operations inside of Russia and getting caught would be a huge positive in the eyes of those who are routinely victimized by the meddling of the United State in everyone's affairs.
  - deaddodo 3y ago
    > Much of the world is wary of the United States and thinks it is an out-of-control bully that answers to no one. I mean, bully is an emotionally weighted term; but that is precisely the situation. They're the hegemon/sole superpower. It's what nations in that position have done since time immemorial. On the flipside, Pax Americana has been undeniably the most peaceful time in recorded human history. Conquest is nigh nonexistant, most empires are dead and war, poverty and sickness are at an all-time low. With many of the geopolitical and technological advances that led to that directly attributable to the United States and it's allies. The question isn't whether they are "bullies" or not, it's whether or not you think they're abusing that status and that the other options are nicer bullies. Empires fall throughout history, them losing superpower status would just be a footnote for those people's "gotcha"; so they better be sure the alternative is an improvement. > That Russia invaded Ukraine isn't unnoticed by these countries but that doesn't give the US a free pass to do whatever it wants, wherever it wants. Clearly it does. Unless/until someone wants to dismantle their position. Are they playing with fire by overutilizing that position? Certainly. But they're willing to risk that when it is particularly beneficial for them/their allies. What is Cuba, North Korea, Iran, Mexico, etc going to do about it? > Lots of countries would like to see the US embarrassed for its continued overreach and bullying of smaller countries. Lots of countries would like to see them embarrassed even if they did absolutely nothing. Again, that's the risk of being hegemon.

marcosdumay 3y ago

That never stopped any of those shady foreign-power agencies... but anyway, why do you think Putin needs actual facts to refuel his bonfire?

pessimizer 3y ago

> The mercenary might get caught afterwards, before, or just be a Russian double agent from the start. If you're going to make things up, it might be an entirely successful poisoning done by the girlfriend of the head of the gang, days after her mom's bills for cancer treatment were entirely paid off. Then, a rumor goes around that she killed him to get to a secret account, and the evidence is that her mom's bills were paid off mysteriously. Days later, she's found dead in an alley; people assume that she was a victim of another member of the gang - even the other members of the gang assume it, although no one is talking. Meanwhile, it was an agent that had been placed as a clerk at a local tax office, on his lunch break. If we're making things up.

LawTalkingGuy 3y ago

You wouldn't hire some ex US special forces person hiding in Russia in deep cover, like a movie. You'd hire local thugs who works as enforcers for a gang to simply grab these guys and shove them in a van and deliver them to a warehouse. These are cash-motivated criminals not ideological or patriotic fanatics. I imagine the interrogation would be like "You know why we captured you, right? Yes. Login and disable your entire network and live or we brutalize you until you do and then kill you. Ok." Especially if this was at a government level (ie, not private "loss prevention") you'd be able to tap the intel network for local criminals and things to hold over their heads to motivate them.

gghffguhvc 3y ago
Sounds about right. But they’d use a threat about loved ones as well.
ozim 3y ago
How do you make sure these people don’t take money and vanish? You tell them half payment before and half after? Then they leave with half and don’t do shit. You say well I’m going to pay you all after job is done. Well they say fuck you, pay half now or we are not lifting a finger you want something from us not that we want anything from you. Oh how do you track them down and beat them up if they are gone with your half payment? You hire next batch that do the same?

sgift 3y ago

You really think anyone who isn't already sucking up to him cares what Vlad is saying? The US could probably do anything in Russia right now short of using a dirty bomb (and even then, as long as there are no US markings ..) and nothing would change.

Mountain_Skies 3y ago
Yes, many care, just like they did during the Cold War when the US and USSR would battle for the hearts of non-aligned countries. Much of the world is wary of the United States and thinks it is an out-of-control bully that answers to no one. That Russia invaded Ukraine isn't unnoticed by these countries but that doesn't give the US a free pass to do whatever it wants, wherever it wants. Lots of countries would like to see the US embarrassed for its continued overreach and bullying of smaller countries. Trying to conduct covert operations inside of Russia and getting caught would be a huge positive in the eyes of those who are routinely victimized by the meddling of the United State in everyone's affairs.
- deaddodo 3y ago
  > Much of the world is wary of the United States and thinks it is an out-of-control bully that answers to no one. I mean, bully is an emotionally weighted term; but that is precisely the situation. They're the hegemon/sole superpower. It's what nations in that position have done since time immemorial. On the flipside, Pax Americana has been undeniably the most peaceful time in recorded human history. Conquest is nigh nonexistant, most empires are dead and war, poverty and sickness are at an all-time low. With many of the geopolitical and technological advances that led to that directly attributable to the United States and it's allies. The question isn't whether they are "bullies" or not, it's whether or not you think they're abusing that status and that the other options are nicer bullies. Empires fall throughout history, them losing superpower status would just be a footnote for those people's "gotcha"; so they better be sure the alternative is an improvement. > That Russia invaded Ukraine isn't unnoticed by these countries but that doesn't give the US a free pass to do whatever it wants, wherever it wants. Clearly it does. Unless/until someone wants to dismantle their position. Are they playing with fire by overutilizing that position? Certainly. But they're willing to risk that when it is particularly beneficial for them/their allies. What is Cuba, North Korea, Iran, Mexico, etc going to do about it? > Lots of countries would like to see the US embarrassed for its continued overreach and bullying of smaller countries. Lots of countries would like to see them embarrassed even if they did absolutely nothing. Again, that's the risk of being hegemon.