7 ms·

AT&T Caps Unlimited Data Plans

34 points by grellas 15y ago

ben1040 15y ago
This outcome is actually better than what AT&T previously has been doing. At least now unlimited users on the grandfathered $30 plan can consume the same amount of data as the 3GB/$30 metered plan, and only get throttled after 3GB. Up until now the throttling trigger was at 2GB. When people called AT&T and told them that customers on the current 3GB/$30 plan got more data than those on the "unlimited" plan (yet paid the same price), they were told that they were more than welcome to switch to the metered plan that doesn't get throttled.
- unseen 15y ago
  The trigger wasn't 2GB, but "top 5%". Every customer that is affected by the 5% rule will very likely try to reduce his consumption. So when you take the limit as time approaches infinity, the amount putting you in the top 5% approaches zero bytes. I could see why that is a legally questionable thing to do.
- martingordon 15y ago
  I wish they made this an actual option though. When you hit your cap, do you want AT&T to charge you for the overage or drop your speed? Right now it's a one-way decision, and only for those who still have an "unlimited" plan.
Dylan16807 15y ago
A big problem, though, is the severe and opaque nature of the throttle. From what I've heard ATT throttling can cripple the connection even for email. On the other hand I was barely annoyed when my carrier put in a throttle after a couple gigabytes because the speed is still a quarter megabit.
- iamandrus 15y ago
  I ran a speed test on my (throttled) AT&T 3G connection on my iPhone 4. 5 bars, perfect signal here. 0.03 Mbps down and 0.02 up. It's absolute bullshit.
  - eli 15y ago
    Are you still on 3G? T-Mobile's throttling solution is just to force your connection to EDGE once you hit the cap.
    - iamandrus 15y ago
      Yep, still on 3G.
    - pyre 15y ago
      I've experienced this on T-Mobile, and the connection is still usable, though slower. The AT&T throttle sounds unusable.
    - jsight 15y ago
      That's not entirely true for T-Mobile, actually. You still connect to 3G towers even after throttling, but you are slowed down to "2G" speeds. In practice, the 2G speeds are much slower than EDGE, but slightly faster than GPRS.
  - joshAg 15y ago
    why stick with them now that the 4 major cell phone companies have the iphone and 1 (Sprint, i think) even offers unlimited unthrottled data plans?
    - iamandrus 15y ago
      I don't have a choice. It'd be too expensive to switch.
    - janardanyri 15y ago
      And that's the trick: AT&T implemented throttling just after all the dedicated iPhone users upgraded to an iPhone 4S and locked themselves in for another two years. Disgusting, eh?
IgorPartola 15y ago
When someone offers you an unlimited plan, or says that you must sign a contract, watch out. The former means that there is a limit, and it is low and they don't want to tell you what it is. The latter means that their service is so crappy, the only way they can keep you is by legally obligating you to keep paying them. We've seen this with "unlimited" web hosting: practically it means that you can only store a certain amount of data and only have so much bandwidth, and when you start "abusing" the service, you get booted. Calling it "unlimited" gives the provider a license to change the rules whenever it sees fit. I welcome data caps and limits. If AT&T tells me I can only use 2GB of data and at what speed I can make an informed decision on whether to go with their offering or not. I would like to see the limits be more near a 20-30 GB mark as that is my usage, but that is better than "unlimited, but if you do something we don't like we limit you". Please, if you run any kind of service, put a limit on it an make sure you can meet the demand, unless the resource is not constrained on your part in any practical sense. For example, I say "unlimited email notifications" on Ping Brigade, but there is no real constraint in place. However, I put a hard limit on how many services/servers you can monitor because I know the limits of my system and I have planned for capacity (and have a plan to expand the capacity if all of a sudden the service gets popular). Contrast that with AT&T, who sold first and build the service later. I guess though that it works out for them: they have billions while I can only buy noodles with my earnings.
- TheCapn 15y ago
  I think you're off base on this and are looking at the issue from a single side. The "Unlimited Data Plans" are cooked up through marketing departments that take a broad look at the numbers their network can ideally handle and conclude that when matching up customer usage models to these numbers they can offer a service that exceeds the average user's need. If they evaluate the market and determine that the average user is a 2GB/month type user and their network is supposed to be able to handle upwards of 7GB/month per user at their projected service rates they make the offer that "unlimited" is what is offered. From the consumer's P.O.V. an "Unlimited" data plan looks much better than a "7GB/month" data plan. Smoke and mirrors. What happens is the power users or edge cases to these hypothetical usage models break down that service offering. A lot goes into a mobile network and heavy users CAN cause issues to the equipment out in the field. What happens is the tech side of the provider begin to scramble to make things happen, project budgets skyrocket and everything suddenly looks terrible on paper. The next step is then to realize that "unlimited" is a pipe dream and is really only available to those people who check the weather and read their emails on a daily basis. /rant tl;dr - its not a malicious decision by the provider to make these offerings. They work with models and offerings from a business perspective that aren't ideal from a technological perspective and the disjoint creates problems on the bottom line. To the end user however it looks like a planned event.
danso 15y ago
Off-topic: How do people typically go over 3GB in a month? The only time I came close was when Spotify forced a re-download of all my previously-cached music and I had my wifi turned off. My IT person (in a company <50) said I'm the only person to have ever gone near 2GB. I'm sure you can easily go over the limit by streaming Netflix...but I generally watch Netflix at home.
- MatthewPhillips 15y ago
  I moved 6 months ago and didn't have internet for a couple of days, tethered my phone to my Roku. Phone was nearly unusable for the rest of the month.
- sukuriant 15y ago
  I used to push very near, or even exceed 2GB when I was listening to Pandora/LastFM/GrooveShark all the time. I hate commercials, so I used my phone as a radio playing device when I was in my car, and I was in my car a lot. I also occassionally look up YouTube videos, connect to my server via SSH and a variety of other things.
- zacgarrett 15y ago
  On my Android phone I use the doggcatcher app to download podcasts. I go well over 3gb each month, but as a Sprint customer I currently do not need to worry about the limits. I could certainly set the app to only download on wifi and avoid the issue entirely. However, it is quite nice to have it check hourly for new podcasts and download them at that point no matter where I am.
  - spoiledtechie 15y ago
    AT&T has pushed on us hard. We pay almost $200 for 2 people. We will be moving over to T-Mobile when the contract is up. It will save us almost $100 a month and still keep the unlimited plan. Ive had enough of AT&T for a while, im just waiting for this damn contract to be done with.
- dionidium 15y ago
  My billing cycle ends tomorrow and I'm at 5935.74 MB. For me it's streaming podcasts (managing downloads in iTunes is a pain), YouTube, and lots of web browsing. During the MLB season I probably use even more, because I stream multiple games per day (I haven't checked this). I also semi-frequently buy albums from iTunes on the phone. In short, it's not very hard if you use the phone like I do. Edit: Wow, it actually appears I was hovering around 1GB per month until last September, during which I used 2.7GB -- a jump from 0.5 GB the month before -- and after which it's been a close-to-linear increase. Weird. I didn't realize my habits have so drastically changed.
mikeash 15y ago
Advertising "unlimited" and then not providing it should be illegal under truth in advertising law. It's well past time for ISPs to get rid of this whole "unlimited" concept and start charging reasonable rates for usage.
- sukuriant 15y ago
  Why can't we just have unlimited for wire-based services? Also, I'll take a flat rate over "reasonable rates for usage" any day, when it comes to my internet. I'm sorry, but my usage varies wildly, and I want a consistent bill I can trust. I would be in support of a "$0.25 a GB of 35/35 until you hit 250GB, then flat rate of $X for the rest of the month, at a limited 15/10" or something like that
  - otterley 15y ago
    > Why can't we just have unlimited for wire-based services? Because routers and trunk circuits can't handle unlimited amounts of traffic.
  - mikeash 15y ago
    Wire-based services suffer from contention as well, just at a much higher usage than wireless services. A provider's costs to serve you are largely fixed. A sane bill will have a large fixed cost plus a variable cost for usage. For example, rather than the fixed ~$45/month I pay to Comcast, I'd expect to pay something like $30/month for the connection itself, then another $15 (or perhaps more, since I'm probably a heavier user than the average) for bandwidth. We manage to get by without fixed bills for gasoline, food, electricity, water, etc., what makes internet special where you absolutely need it to be consistent?
    - sukuriant 15y ago
      I have no stats, but gasoline, food, electricity and water are, generally, a constant price and value. I suspect internet usage, especially if a person hosts a website/dedicated video game server would vary considerably month to month. Statistics need to be taken to validate/invalidate my speculation; but, I imagine when I was on 35/35 FiOS and 25/25(20/20?) FiOS beforehand, my internet fluctuated on the order of 10s, 20s or even 50s of GBs a month.
paul9290 15y ago
I'm with Sprint and they offer unlimited data for iPhone users and probably across their network for smartphone users. My usage is higher then average but even using Spotify and Pandora in the car everyday (30 to 40 mile drives) I rarely go over 2 gigabytes.
th0ma5 15y ago
I can't believe no one is talking about how this is all arbitrary and all made up, and a part of an ongoing fleecing of the public resources, the airwaves, like they fleeced us on the right-away we gave them, the telephone lines, which resulted in the whole dark fiber hooked up to nothing.
- blario 15y ago
  Why don't you explain it yourself?
  - th0ma5 15y ago
    Well, in a nutshell, back in the 80s, there was a fee tacked on to all phone bills for "upgrades" that had listed among other things that everything would be moving to fiber optic. Instead they sort of double dipped. You can read articles like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_fibre http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_fibre perhaps as a starting point, but essentially they charged their customers a special government mandated fee, that allowed them to build it out but not actually have to hook it up anywhere, and then when everyone forgot about this fee and what this really was, then treated as this new asset they could sell off, all while never actually figuring out the last mile problem, which was the heart of the original law to begin with. So now with wireless it is the same thing, where terms get thrown around like "bandwidth" and "capacity" and while they want to, on one hand, say that these are limitations from the FCC or just plain physics, they are actually words to describe the fact that it is their towers, or the connections to the towers, that they purposefully keep limited in order to facilitate very high profit margins. So they tell their customers "have all of this unlimited everything" but they've only built out (of their own equipment mind you) the ability to service 10% maybe of what they sell, so that when people actually start using it, they can then blame the customer, all the while showing ever increasing profits to their shareholders. I would be very very suspect of anything any of the damned companies have to say about their own capacity, and be very careful not to assume that it is the airwaves that are full, but it is really their equipment that they've oversold.
kamechan 15y ago
if i recall correctly, it used to be the case that if a cell phone provider made major changes to an individual's contract (at least in california), one had a small window to terminate the contract without the termination fee (or with a reduced termination fee). am i mis-remembering this or does anyone know if this is still the case?
- blario 15y ago
  That sounds correct. I used this before in Washington, DC when I was a Verizon subscriber. I cannot remember what Verizon changed at the time... It might have been the price on text messages. I did the same with Sprint when I changed to an iPhone in 2009 also. I'm very interested to know if this applies here. I've been LOOKING for a free way to switch from AT&T to Straight Talk!
- TheCapn 15y ago
  Regardless if it is still law I imagine you could get out of the contract in the event they pulled this. Contract Law is pretty clear on what is allowed within contract negotiation and having one party modify the contract agreement (regardless of the B.S. clause of modifications can occur without consent) is typically not widely accepted. Having said that your contract with the ISP is worth roughly $500 or more depending on when you entered the contract. If you started to lean on them with a "legal" threat of contract termination and taking it to the courts blah blah blah they'll most likely voluntarily terminate the contract because its not worth their time/effort.
pixelfiend 15y ago
I just got off the phone with AT&T customer support. While the representative was sympathetic, she stressed that "AT&T is not required to provide notification of service changes." I informed her that this change constituted a major change in service, and that I viewed it as grounds to waive the ETF and get out of my current contract. This, apparently, is not a view shared by AT&T. I'm debating wether or not to call again and be nasty to see if I can get out of my contract, but I doubt it will do any good.

34 points by grellas 15y ago

This outcome is actually better than what AT&T previously has been doing. At least now unlimited users on the grandfathered $30 plan can consume the same amount of data as the 3GB/$30 metered plan, and only get throttled after 3GB. Up until now the throttling trigger was at 2GB. When people called AT&T and told them that customers on the current 3GB/$30 plan got more data than those on the "unlimited" plan (yet paid the same price), they were told that they were more than welcome to switch to the metered plan that doesn't get throttled.

unseen 15y ago
The trigger wasn't 2GB, but "top 5%". Every customer that is affected by the 5% rule will very likely try to reduce his consumption. So when you take the limit as time approaches infinity, the amount putting you in the top 5% approaches zero bytes. I could see why that is a legally questionable thing to do.
martingordon 15y ago
I wish they made this an actual option though. When you hit your cap, do you want AT&T to charge you for the overage or drop your speed? Right now it's a one-way decision, and only for those who still have an "unlimited" plan.

Dylan16807 15y ago

A big problem, though, is the severe and opaque nature of the throttle. From what I've heard ATT throttling can cripple the connection even for email. On the other hand I was barely annoyed when my carrier put in a throttle after a couple gigabytes because the speed is still a quarter megabit.

iamandrus 15y ago
I ran a speed test on my (throttled) AT&T 3G connection on my iPhone 4. 5 bars, perfect signal here. 0.03 Mbps down and 0.02 up. It's absolute bullshit.
- eli 15y ago
  Are you still on 3G? T-Mobile's throttling solution is just to force your connection to EDGE once you hit the cap.
  - iamandrus 15y ago
    Yep, still on 3G.
  - pyre 15y ago
    I've experienced this on T-Mobile, and the connection is still usable, though slower. The AT&T throttle sounds unusable.
  - jsight 15y ago
    That's not entirely true for T-Mobile, actually. You still connect to 3G towers even after throttling, but you are slowed down to "2G" speeds. In practice, the 2G speeds are much slower than EDGE, but slightly faster than GPRS.
- joshAg 15y ago
  why stick with them now that the 4 major cell phone companies have the iphone and 1 (Sprint, i think) even offers unlimited unthrottled data plans?
  - iamandrus 15y ago
    I don't have a choice. It'd be too expensive to switch.
  - janardanyri 15y ago
    And that's the trick: AT&T implemented throttling just after all the dedicated iPhone users upgraded to an iPhone 4S and locked themselves in for another two years. Disgusting, eh?

IgorPartola 15y ago

When someone offers you an unlimited plan, or says that you must sign a contract, watch out. The former means that there is a limit, and it is low and they don't want to tell you what it is. The latter means that their service is so crappy, the only way they can keep you is by legally obligating you to keep paying them. We've seen this with "unlimited" web hosting: practically it means that you can only store a certain amount of data and only have so much bandwidth, and when you start "abusing" the service, you get booted. Calling it "unlimited" gives the provider a license to change the rules whenever it sees fit. I welcome data caps and limits. If AT&T tells me I can only use 2GB of data and at what speed I can make an informed decision on whether to go with their offering or not. I would like to see the limits be more near a 20-30 GB mark as that is my usage, but that is better than "unlimited, but if you do something we don't like we limit you". Please, if you run any kind of service, put a limit on it an make sure you can meet the demand, unless the resource is not constrained on your part in any practical sense. For example, I say "unlimited email notifications" on Ping Brigade, but there is no real constraint in place. However, I put a hard limit on how many services/servers you can monitor because I know the limits of my system and I have planned for capacity (and have a plan to expand the capacity if all of a sudden the service gets popular). Contrast that with AT&T, who sold first and build the service later. I guess though that it works out for them: they have billions while I can only buy noodles with my earnings.

TheCapn 15y ago
I think you're off base on this and are looking at the issue from a single side. The "Unlimited Data Plans" are cooked up through marketing departments that take a broad look at the numbers their network can ideally handle and conclude that when matching up customer usage models to these numbers they can offer a service that exceeds the average user's need. If they evaluate the market and determine that the average user is a 2GB/month type user and their network is supposed to be able to handle upwards of 7GB/month per user at their projected service rates they make the offer that "unlimited" is what is offered. From the consumer's P.O.V. an "Unlimited" data plan looks much better than a "7GB/month" data plan. Smoke and mirrors. What happens is the power users or edge cases to these hypothetical usage models break down that service offering. A lot goes into a mobile network and heavy users CAN cause issues to the equipment out in the field. What happens is the tech side of the provider begin to scramble to make things happen, project budgets skyrocket and everything suddenly looks terrible on paper. The next step is then to realize that "unlimited" is a pipe dream and is really only available to those people who check the weather and read their emails on a daily basis. /rant tl;dr - its not a malicious decision by the provider to make these offerings. They work with models and offerings from a business perspective that aren't ideal from a technological perspective and the disjoint creates problems on the bottom line. To the end user however it looks like a planned event.

danso 15y ago

Off-topic: How do people typically go over 3GB in a month? The only time I came close was when Spotify forced a re-download of all my previously-cached music and I had my wifi turned off. My IT person (in a company <50) said I'm the only person to have ever gone near 2GB. I'm sure you can easily go over the limit by streaming Netflix...but I generally watch Netflix at home.

MatthewPhillips 15y ago
I moved 6 months ago and didn't have internet for a couple of days, tethered my phone to my Roku. Phone was nearly unusable for the rest of the month.
sukuriant 15y ago
I used to push very near, or even exceed 2GB when I was listening to Pandora/LastFM/GrooveShark all the time. I hate commercials, so I used my phone as a radio playing device when I was in my car, and I was in my car a lot. I also occassionally look up YouTube videos, connect to my server via SSH and a variety of other things.
zacgarrett 15y ago
On my Android phone I use the doggcatcher app to download podcasts. I go well over 3gb each month, but as a Sprint customer I currently do not need to worry about the limits. I could certainly set the app to only download on wifi and avoid the issue entirely. However, it is quite nice to have it check hourly for new podcasts and download them at that point no matter where I am.
- spoiledtechie 15y ago
  AT&T has pushed on us hard. We pay almost $200 for 2 people. We will be moving over to T-Mobile when the contract is up. It will save us almost $100 a month and still keep the unlimited plan. Ive had enough of AT&T for a while, im just waiting for this damn contract to be done with.
dionidium 15y ago
My billing cycle ends tomorrow and I'm at 5935.74 MB. For me it's streaming podcasts (managing downloads in iTunes is a pain), YouTube, and lots of web browsing. During the MLB season I probably use even more, because I stream multiple games per day (I haven't checked this). I also semi-frequently buy albums from iTunes on the phone. In short, it's not very hard if you use the phone like I do. Edit: Wow, it actually appears I was hovering around 1GB per month until last September, during which I used 2.7GB -- a jump from 0.5 GB the month before -- and after which it's been a close-to-linear increase. Weird. I didn't realize my habits have so drastically changed.

mikeash 15y ago

Advertising "unlimited" and then not providing it should be illegal under truth in advertising law. It's well past time for ISPs to get rid of this whole "unlimited" concept and start charging reasonable rates for usage.

sukuriant 15y ago
Why can't we just have unlimited for wire-based services? Also, I'll take a flat rate over "reasonable rates for usage" any day, when it comes to my internet. I'm sorry, but my usage varies wildly, and I want a consistent bill I can trust. I would be in support of a "$0.25 a GB of 35/35 until you hit 250GB, then flat rate of $X for the rest of the month, at a limited 15/10" or something like that
- otterley 15y ago
  > Why can't we just have unlimited for wire-based services? Because routers and trunk circuits can't handle unlimited amounts of traffic.
- mikeash 15y ago
  Wire-based services suffer from contention as well, just at a much higher usage than wireless services. A provider's costs to serve you are largely fixed. A sane bill will have a large fixed cost plus a variable cost for usage. For example, rather than the fixed ~$45/month I pay to Comcast, I'd expect to pay something like $30/month for the connection itself, then another $15 (or perhaps more, since I'm probably a heavier user than the average) for bandwidth. We manage to get by without fixed bills for gasoline, food, electricity, water, etc., what makes internet special where you absolutely need it to be consistent?
  - sukuriant 15y ago
    I have no stats, but gasoline, food, electricity and water are, generally, a constant price and value. I suspect internet usage, especially if a person hosts a website/dedicated video game server would vary considerably month to month. Statistics need to be taken to validate/invalidate my speculation; but, I imagine when I was on 35/35 FiOS and 25/25(20/20?) FiOS beforehand, my internet fluctuated on the order of 10s, 20s or even 50s of GBs a month.

paul9290 15y ago

I'm with Sprint and they offer unlimited data for iPhone users and probably across their network for smartphone users. My usage is higher then average but even using Spotify and Pandora in the car everyday (30 to 40 mile drives) I rarely go over 2 gigabytes.

th0ma5 15y ago

I can't believe no one is talking about how this is all arbitrary and all made up, and a part of an ongoing fleecing of the public resources, the airwaves, like they fleeced us on the right-away we gave them, the telephone lines, which resulted in the whole dark fiber hooked up to nothing.

blario 15y ago
Why don't you explain it yourself?
- th0ma5 15y ago
  Well, in a nutshell, back in the 80s, there was a fee tacked on to all phone bills for "upgrades" that had listed among other things that everything would be moving to fiber optic. Instead they sort of double dipped. You can read articles like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_fibre http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_fibre perhaps as a starting point, but essentially they charged their customers a special government mandated fee, that allowed them to build it out but not actually have to hook it up anywhere, and then when everyone forgot about this fee and what this really was, then treated as this new asset they could sell off, all while never actually figuring out the last mile problem, which was the heart of the original law to begin with. So now with wireless it is the same thing, where terms get thrown around like "bandwidth" and "capacity" and while they want to, on one hand, say that these are limitations from the FCC or just plain physics, they are actually words to describe the fact that it is their towers, or the connections to the towers, that they purposefully keep limited in order to facilitate very high profit margins. So they tell their customers "have all of this unlimited everything" but they've only built out (of their own equipment mind you) the ability to service 10% maybe of what they sell, so that when people actually start using it, they can then blame the customer, all the while showing ever increasing profits to their shareholders. I would be very very suspect of anything any of the damned companies have to say about their own capacity, and be very careful not to assume that it is the airwaves that are full, but it is really their equipment that they've oversold.

kamechan 15y ago

if i recall correctly, it used to be the case that if a cell phone provider made major changes to an individual's contract (at least in california), one had a small window to terminate the contract without the termination fee (or with a reduced termination fee). am i mis-remembering this or does anyone know if this is still the case?

blario 15y ago
That sounds correct. I used this before in Washington, DC when I was a Verizon subscriber. I cannot remember what Verizon changed at the time... It might have been the price on text messages. I did the same with Sprint when I changed to an iPhone in 2009 also. I'm very interested to know if this applies here. I've been LOOKING for a free way to switch from AT&T to Straight Talk!
TheCapn 15y ago
Regardless if it is still law I imagine you could get out of the contract in the event they pulled this. Contract Law is pretty clear on what is allowed within contract negotiation and having one party modify the contract agreement (regardless of the B.S. clause of modifications can occur without consent) is typically not widely accepted. Having said that your contract with the ISP is worth roughly $500 or more depending on when you entered the contract. If you started to lean on them with a "legal" threat of contract termination and taking it to the courts blah blah blah they'll most likely voluntarily terminate the contract because its not worth their time/effort.

pixelfiend 15y ago

I just got off the phone with AT&T customer support. While the representative was sympathetic, she stressed that "AT&T is not required to provide notification of service changes." I informed her that this change constituted a major change in service, and that I viewed it as grounds to waive the ETF and get out of my current contract. This, apparently, is not a view shared by AT&T. I'm debating wether or not to call again and be nasty to see if I can get out of my contract, but I doubt it will do any good.