5 ms·

I’m curious: what’s the alternative to ads then? How do you find new stuff that you might need?

MiddleEndian 3y ago
lol
strongly-typed 3y ago
If I want to find new stuff then I would like to access a dedicated resource where all the promoted material could be promoted. Like a promotional book or email tab.
tetraca 3y ago
Without advertisements, you have to be bothered by things enough to actually want to implement or look up a solution. When it comes to banal consumer goods, if you can't think of a product on your own, you probably don't actually need it.
jordanpg 3y ago
The more important question is what can replace the ad-based business model of the internet? Other than paid subscriptions, which is only a partial solution.
- jaredhallen 3y ago
  That's where my mind went, too. I think part of the answer is that a lot of it can be replaced by nothing. Some of this stuff driving all these ads doesn't even enrich our lives anyway.
- Gordonjcp 3y ago
  Make it illegal to advertise, make it illegal to ask for paid subscriptions.
- warble 3y ago
  Micro transactions
reichstein 3y ago
This is either a sad reflection on society, or awesome sarcasm. (Hoping for the latter, but have you seen society lately?) The need comes first. If I have a need, I (re)search for solutions. The ad does not create the need. Ads still work. They can generate a want, but if I never see the ad, I'll live happily on in blissful ignorance. Building awareness is important for new products. Heck, I might like them. Not complaining about ads in general, just the ones that try to get between me and what I really want my to do. The ones that try to make my attention non-optional. Those must die a fiery death.
ambicapter 3y ago
...Talking...to people?
cewweftg 3y ago
I am struggling to know if this is a troll or not? I don't let Ads tell me what I 'might' need. I already know what I need (I might 'want' something but that is a different topic). Ads try to convince me that I 'need' whatever it is they are 'selling'.
christofosho 3y ago
Not OP but anecdotal experience: Every once in a while I'll go to a store and wander the isles. I see things that I find interesting, but most of the time I don't buy them. Sometimes I think to myself: I would love to know more about topic X. So I use search engines and forums to look for more information on topic X. I happily filter ads because there is no net positive benefit from them for my life. I get excited about things without them, find things I need without them, and have no trouble with either.
flangola7 3y ago
>what’s the alternative to ads then? How do you find new stuff that you might need? How did it we accomplish it for the earlier 99.99% of human history?
- pixl97 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - ulrikrasmussen 3y ago
    I call BS on that. People don't magically stop consuming just because they don't get ads shoved in their faces all the time. I block ads everywhere and haven't really seen an ad in years, but I still sometimes buy useless shit I don't need. It turns out search engines and price directories do a pretty good job of finding useless shit when you actively seek it out. As long as there is a demand for things, people will find it and buy it.
- vikramkr 3y ago
  The earlier 99 percent of human history was pretty garbage. Ads are pretty garbage too but I really don't get why people keep doing this thing where they're like "well how did we manage in the past?" In the past we just died of war and disease and stuff. The past is awful.
  - bee_rider 3y ago
    The past was awful for lots of reasons of course, but one was that we just weren’t very productive. We’re pretty productive nowadays. We could at least try a system where there’s enough stuff, but we find it naturally or by carefully weighing the pros and cons.
    - pixl97 3y ago
      >but we find it naturally or by carefully weighing the pros and cons. This system doesn't make sense... the incentives for producers don't line up with reality. Producers are incentivized to find ways to break your rules and advertise as if they do it alone, they will profit massively.
Solvency 3y ago
Right! Most days I'm just mindlessly clawing around my house, desperately unaware of what I "need" to live without the aid of hundreds of slow-loading data-tracking overwrought boxes of advertising festering my every vantage point. Just this morning, I was on the toilet, about to finish up a shit. I reached instinctively to my left to grab... wait, the little roller is empty! But...what used to be there? What was I about to grab? This is crazy, my mind is completely blank! If only there were some kind of an unskippable 30 second movie with dancing animated bears that could remind me what product I might use adjacent to a toilet bowl to complete my biological morning ritual!
- toldyouso2022 3y ago
  I laughed, but it's about finding new stuff not stuff you already know exists, and it works sometimes. Of course they made ads too intrusive so we block them now, but even then I did buy something I found very useful after seeing some of the few ads that slipped. I think early 2000 adsense ads were the best. Just simple text or images and contextual to the content of the page you were on.
  - jeltz 3y ago
    Targeted ads are terrible at that. They are quite often overly specific and just try to convince me to buy more of the things I already know about.
    - jeegsy 3y ago
      including stuff you literally just purchased
      - jaredhallen 3y ago
        I see you just purchased u-joints for a Dodge pickup. Wait until you see these brake pads for a Honda Civic! Or, alternatively, I noticed you recently purchased an instant pot. Would you like to subscribe to purchase instant pots monthly?
  - 3y ago
theossuary 3y ago
Hah I've run into this exact issue. I've always been the same way, if a medium has unblockable/unremovable ads I'd tend not to consume it; things like radio, magazines, etc. But I realized when I wanted to buy something I didn't even know what brands were in the space. It made doing research a bit trickier. That doesn't mean ads are necessary though, frankly any system which depends on spending more than your competitors will never produce the best recommendations. Instead I learned to first build a list of companies in a space, then research those companies. I use things like Wirecutter, Reddit, and Productchart to help decide as well. What I need aren't ads; I need good, user-centric, recommendation and discovery products. Sadly we fell into the local-minimum of ads instead. That said sometimes I do choose to let a company advertise to me in a specific channel (separate email or social media account) so I can keep up with their products and potential deals. That seems like a good middle ground for me.
- Konnstann 3y ago
  At least if I get an advertisement I immediately understand the biases behind whoever served it to me, with stuff like reddit or blogs I can never be sure how astroturfed it is, or whether the people reviewing things even know what they are talking about. I'm not a proponent of advertising in the modern sense, but it's probably the least dishonest way that companies pay to promote their product. Professional reviewers are a good medium but it takes time to find those in a new space where you're not sure if their standards and preferences match yours
- smiley1437 3y ago
  > But I realized when I wanted to buy something I didn't even know what brands were in the space. I this is one of the reasons why Reddit became so popular
mcpackieh 3y ago
Talking to people, and seeking things out myself when I perceive a need for something. If my shoes wear out then I'll decide for myself to seek out new shoes at a shoe store. If I don't know what brands are good, I ask other people what brand they use and if they're happy with it. If I'm missing out on some product that I might like but I've never heard of because I block ads, that doesn't matter to me. If I don't know that I would want it, then I don't want for it. But generally, people talk about things worth talking about and I'd rather hear about new products from real people who don't have a commercial stake in promoting the thing.
kjs3 3y ago
Yes, this is the question for the ages. How can you possibly survive if you don't buy more stuff you didn't even know you needed. Clearly, that more than justifies any and all intrusive, exploitive, unethical practices. Won't someone think of the children (buying stuff they don't need). P.S.: I have had any number of marketing types push back (vehemently) when I expressed my distaste for oppressive ad overload with "well you tell me what the alternative is...how else am I supposed to reach customers". And I have stopped even trying to be nice about it: Figuring that out is your goddam job. My job would be vastly easier if I could just say "all that stuff about ethics, regulation, legislation and simple common decency...that's really inconvenient and I'm going to ignore it". But I don't get to ignore any of that; I still successfully do my job. So why should marketing be somehow different. Anyone in marketing who says "You tell me how to do my job without crapping on people" is lazy and incompetent.
bigbillheck 3y ago
Are you often in the position where you need something but do not already know that you do?
mock-possum 3y ago
You go out and do your own research, you ask the people you trust for their own personal experiences.
OJFord 3y ago
I see ads when I watch Youtube on my TV, and basically not otherwise. I have never seen one and thought Oh yeah I want/need that, more often it's laughably off base. They could've trivially targeted to the video, but instead decided I might have some niche health concern which is demographically impossible. Typically the content I'm trying to watch (even if unsponsored) is a far superior advert. I didn't know I wanted a powered/active cooler box (and definitely don't need one) until I saw an AvE video of one last night. Now I'd quite like Makita's, and in fact now I come to think of it I did even share the link with someone who is in the market for one. But the malgorithms did their best to make me learn about and want to buy shitty VPNs and maltesers instead. If I'm watching tool/DIY videos give me the tool ads? I might actually be interested? I might warm to the brand, associating it with my favourite channels? Not that I want to be manipulated like that, it just seems bafflingly poorly targeted whenever I do see them that it's irritating and I'm glad I block them everywhere else.

lol

If I want to find new stuff then I would like to access a dedicated resource where all the promoted material could be promoted. Like a promotional book or email tab.

tetraca 3y ago

Without advertisements, you have to be bothered by things enough to actually want to implement or look up a solution. When it comes to banal consumer goods, if you can't think of a product on your own, you probably don't actually need it.

jordanpg 3y ago

The more important question is what can replace the ad-based business model of the internet? Other than paid subscriptions, which is only a partial solution.

jaredhallen 3y ago
That's where my mind went, too. I think part of the answer is that a lot of it can be replaced by nothing. Some of this stuff driving all these ads doesn't even enrich our lives anyway.
Gordonjcp 3y ago
Make it illegal to advertise, make it illegal to ask for paid subscriptions.
warble 3y ago
Micro transactions

reichstein 3y ago

This is either a sad reflection on society, or awesome sarcasm. (Hoping for the latter, but have you seen society lately?) The need comes first. If I have a need, I (re)search for solutions. The ad does not create the need. Ads still work. They can generate a want, but if I never see the ad, I'll live happily on in blissful ignorance. Building awareness is important for new products. Heck, I might like them. Not complaining about ads in general, just the ones that try to get between me and what I really want my to do. The ones that try to make my attention non-optional. Those must die a fiery death.

ambicapter 3y ago

...Talking...to people?

cewweftg 3y ago

I am struggling to know if this is a troll or not? I don't let Ads tell me what I 'might' need. I already know what I need (I might 'want' something but that is a different topic). Ads try to convince me that I 'need' whatever it is they are 'selling'.

christofosho 3y ago

Not OP but anecdotal experience: Every once in a while I'll go to a store and wander the isles. I see things that I find interesting, but most of the time I don't buy them. Sometimes I think to myself: I would love to know more about topic X. So I use search engines and forums to look for more information on topic X. I happily filter ads because there is no net positive benefit from them for my life. I get excited about things without them, find things I need without them, and have no trouble with either.

flangola7 3y ago

>what’s the alternative to ads then? How do you find new stuff that you might need? How did it we accomplish it for the earlier 99.99% of human history?

pixl97 3y ago
[flagged]
- ulrikrasmussen 3y ago
  I call BS on that. People don't magically stop consuming just because they don't get ads shoved in their faces all the time. I block ads everywhere and haven't really seen an ad in years, but I still sometimes buy useless shit I don't need. It turns out search engines and price directories do a pretty good job of finding useless shit when you actively seek it out. As long as there is a demand for things, people will find it and buy it.
vikramkr 3y ago
The earlier 99 percent of human history was pretty garbage. Ads are pretty garbage too but I really don't get why people keep doing this thing where they're like "well how did we manage in the past?" In the past we just died of war and disease and stuff. The past is awful.
- bee_rider 3y ago
  The past was awful for lots of reasons of course, but one was that we just weren’t very productive. We’re pretty productive nowadays. We could at least try a system where there’s enough stuff, but we find it naturally or by carefully weighing the pros and cons.
  - pixl97 3y ago
    >but we find it naturally or by carefully weighing the pros and cons. This system doesn't make sense... the incentives for producers don't line up with reality. Producers are incentivized to find ways to break your rules and advertise as if they do it alone, they will profit massively.

Solvency 3y ago

Right! Most days I'm just mindlessly clawing around my house, desperately unaware of what I "need" to live without the aid of hundreds of slow-loading data-tracking overwrought boxes of advertising festering my every vantage point. Just this morning, I was on the toilet, about to finish up a shit. I reached instinctively to my left to grab... wait, the little roller is empty! But...what used to be there? What was I about to grab? This is crazy, my mind is completely blank! If only there were some kind of an unskippable 30 second movie with dancing animated bears that could remind me what product I might use adjacent to a toilet bowl to complete my biological morning ritual!

toldyouso2022 3y ago
I laughed, but it's about finding new stuff not stuff you already know exists, and it works sometimes. Of course they made ads too intrusive so we block them now, but even then I did buy something I found very useful after seeing some of the few ads that slipped. I think early 2000 adsense ads were the best. Just simple text or images and contextual to the content of the page you were on.
- jeltz 3y ago
  Targeted ads are terrible at that. They are quite often overly specific and just try to convince me to buy more of the things I already know about.
  - jeegsy 3y ago
    including stuff you literally just purchased
    - jaredhallen 3y ago
      I see you just purchased u-joints for a Dodge pickup. Wait until you see these brake pads for a Honda Civic! Or, alternatively, I noticed you recently purchased an instant pot. Would you like to subscribe to purchase instant pots monthly?
- 3y ago

theossuary 3y ago

Hah I've run into this exact issue. I've always been the same way, if a medium has unblockable/unremovable ads I'd tend not to consume it; things like radio, magazines, etc. But I realized when I wanted to buy something I didn't even know what brands were in the space. It made doing research a bit trickier. That doesn't mean ads are necessary though, frankly any system which depends on spending more than your competitors will never produce the best recommendations. Instead I learned to first build a list of companies in a space, then research those companies. I use things like Wirecutter, Reddit, and Productchart to help decide as well. What I need aren't ads; I need good, user-centric, recommendation and discovery products. Sadly we fell into the local-minimum of ads instead. That said sometimes I do choose to let a company advertise to me in a specific channel (separate email or social media account) so I can keep up with their products and potential deals. That seems like a good middle ground for me.

Konnstann 3y ago
At least if I get an advertisement I immediately understand the biases behind whoever served it to me, with stuff like reddit or blogs I can never be sure how astroturfed it is, or whether the people reviewing things even know what they are talking about. I'm not a proponent of advertising in the modern sense, but it's probably the least dishonest way that companies pay to promote their product. Professional reviewers are a good medium but it takes time to find those in a new space where you're not sure if their standards and preferences match yours
smiley1437 3y ago
> But I realized when I wanted to buy something I didn't even know what brands were in the space. I this is one of the reasons why Reddit became so popular

mcpackieh 3y ago

Talking to people, and seeking things out myself when I perceive a need for something. If my shoes wear out then I'll decide for myself to seek out new shoes at a shoe store. If I don't know what brands are good, I ask other people what brand they use and if they're happy with it. If I'm missing out on some product that I might like but I've never heard of because I block ads, that doesn't matter to me. If I don't know that I would want it, then I don't want for it. But generally, people talk about things worth talking about and I'd rather hear about new products from real people who don't have a commercial stake in promoting the thing.

kjs3 3y ago

Yes, this is the question for the ages. How can you possibly survive if you don't buy more stuff you didn't even know you needed. Clearly, that more than justifies any and all intrusive, exploitive, unethical practices. Won't someone think of the children (buying stuff they don't need). P.S.: I have had any number of marketing types push back (vehemently) when I expressed my distaste for oppressive ad overload with "well you tell me what the alternative is...how else am I supposed to reach customers". And I have stopped even trying to be nice about it: Figuring that out is your goddam job. My job would be vastly easier if I could just say "all that stuff about ethics, regulation, legislation and simple common decency...that's really inconvenient and I'm going to ignore it". But I don't get to ignore any of that; I still successfully do my job. So why should marketing be somehow different. Anyone in marketing who says "You tell me how to do my job without crapping on people" is lazy and incompetent.

bigbillheck 3y ago

Are you often in the position where you need something but do not already know that you do?

mock-possum 3y ago

You go out and do your own research, you ask the people you trust for their own personal experiences.

OJFord 3y ago

I see ads when I watch Youtube on my TV, and basically not otherwise. I have never seen one and thought Oh yeah I want/need that, more often it's laughably off base. They could've trivially targeted to the video, but instead decided I might have some niche health concern which is demographically impossible. Typically the content I'm trying to watch (even if unsponsored) is a far superior advert. I didn't know I wanted a powered/active cooler box (and definitely don't need one) until I saw an AvE video of one last night. Now I'd quite like Makita's, and in fact now I come to think of it I did even share the link with someone who is in the market for one. But the malgorithms did their best to make me learn about and want to buy shitty VPNs and maltesers instead. If I'm watching tool/DIY videos give me the tool ads? I might actually be interested? I might warm to the brand, associating it with my favourite channels? Not that I want to be manipulated like that, it just seems bafflingly poorly targeted whenever I do see them that it's irritating and I'm glad I block them everywhere else.