10 ms·

Hipólito Mora, vigilante crusader against Mexico’s cartels, killed in ambush

162 points by Michelangelo11 3y ago

xrd 3y ago
Does anyone else think that the really strange approach to legalization in the US is because the cartels realize that full legalization would result in a radical reduction of profit for them, and that our local governments are probably being bribed or blackmailed into coercing the wrong policies time and time again. Just me?
- EinguterTag 3y ago
  Full drug legalization? Carteles profits come mostly from cocaine, fentanyl, and meth.
gftttgggfffddd 3y ago
Drug users should stop doing narcotics because of the violence that results. It's not just about being a poor life choice. There are a lot of good folks across the world who live in dangerous communities because others have an appetite for artificial stimulation.
- JimtheCoder 3y ago
  "Drug users should stop doing narcotics because of the violence that results." I don't think the far away results of their actions are on the minds of junkies when they are looking for a fix. I am not a junkie, so I am just guessing...
  - zztop44 3y ago
    Not every drug user is a “junkie”. Anecdotally I know of two past regular cocaine users who stopped precisely because they couldn’t stomach the supply chain ethics.
  - pxc 3y ago
    > And how can you put that straw up your nose, when you know how coke is manufactured? > It's made by children for the immature. > It is made by babies who've been captured. > It's a sin against their fellow man! > It's a sin against your fellow man. https://youtu.be/2zpSflrnj-k https://youtu.be/2zpSflrnj-k
- FelipeRM 3y ago
  It is tempting to believe that drugs are the reason of violence here in Mexico. The reality is way more complex, and these cartels and violent groups with many income sources, corruption is what allow them to flourish. So yeah, drugs are part of the problem but not the main reason.
- steve76 3y ago
  [dead]
- rjbwork 3y ago
  Societies should stop criminalizing drugs and drug users. It's not just about being a poor way to govern a society. There are a lot of good folks across the world who live in dangerous communities because others have a predilection for legislating morality and controlling others' bodies.
  - JimtheCoder 3y ago
    "because others have a predilection for legislating morality and controlling others' bodies." Are you sure people who want to keep heroin, meth and coke illegal are doing it because they want to legislate morality and control others bodies? Or is it because they don't want to have to deal with the negative effects that these drugs have on their community. Criminalizing them hasn't been the solution, but decriminalizing them will not make things that much better either...
    - rjbwork 3y ago
      Decriminalizing is not enough. Legal, cheap, and with huge amounts of education and medical assistance at dispensation outlets is the only path towards dealing with the problem, IMO. From my perspective, most of the bad effects of those drugs occur due to their illegality. Meth, heroin, cocaine, etc. is pretty fucking dirt cheap to produce. The impurities and high costs and unknown doses and burdens to the carceral system are what impose the bulk of the costs to society.
      - localplume 3y ago
        [dead]
  - adolph 3y ago
    As an individual there is an ethical choice to abstain that is outside of criminalization and societal morality. It is similar choice to not eating meat because factory farms lead to poor treatment of other beings. It is similar to riding a bike instead of driving a car.
- fisherjeff 3y ago
  I mean yeah, there are loads of good reasons to not be addicted to drugs. Now if only those pesky addictions would listen…
- dawatchusay 3y ago
  It’s certainly not the users’ faults for starters, and “artificial stimulation” should include alcohol and cigarettes which don’t result in situations of the magnitude we see regarding the illegal drug trade, perhaps exactly because they are legal and regulated.
- __MatrixMan__ 3y ago
  You're not wrong, but no pile of shoulds is going to be effective in this endeavor. Instead, I'd like to work on genetically engineering yeasts and bacteria to synthesize the desired alkaloids in a homebrew setting. It would be more ethical, and probably safer too.
- InCityDreams 3y ago
  >Drug users should stop doing narcotics because of the violence that results. That's a lot of doctors you're asking a lot of.
- Zircom 3y ago
  Just as soon as you give up your computer and your iPhone that were made with exploited and/or slave labor :)
0xbadcafebee 3y ago
A real life hero. I hope they make a national day of remembrance in his honor.
peepeepoopoo13 3y ago
> Mexico has extremely restrictive laws regarding gun possession. There are only two stores in the entire country, DCAM near the capital, and OTCA, in Apodaca, Nuevo León. It also takes months of paperwork to have a chance at purchasing one legally. > In 1971, Article 10 of the present Constitution was changed[10] to limit the right to keep arms within the home only (in Spanish: ...derecho a poseer armas en su domicilio...) and reserved the right to bear arms outside the home only to those explicitly authorized by law (i.e. police, military, armed security officers). The following year, the Federal Law of Firearms and Explosives came into force[11] and gave the federal government complete jurisdiction and control to the legal proliferation of firearms in the country; at the same time, heavily limiting and restricting the legal access to firearms by civilians. > As a result of the changes to Article 10 of the Mexican Constitution and the enactment of the Federal Law of Firearms and Explosives, openly carrying a firearm or carrying a concealed weapon in public is virtually forbidden to private citizens, unless explicitly authorized by the Secretariat of National Defense (SEDENA). For purposes of personal protection, firearms are only permitted within the place of residence and of the type and caliber permitted by law. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_regulation_in_Mexico https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_regulation_in_Mexico Why is Mexico such an outlier in terms of the success of gun control? It seemed hugely successful elsewhere in countries like Japan and Sweden.
- zztop44 3y ago
  One reason is having a giant porous (at least in the north -> south direction) border with the US. They are also a major exporter of illegal drugs to the US (aka the world’s biggest market for illegal drugs), being both a producer and trade route for other producer nations further south. Control of these trade routes is extremely profitable, and guns are super easy to import. It’s not that surprising that the situation is different to Japan or Sweden.
  - peepeepoopoo13 3y ago
    It's shocking how far guns can travel from the southern US border. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overview_of_gun_laws_by_nation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overview_of_gun_laws_by_nation > Article 3 of Colombia's firearm law states that civilians may possess firearms only via permit issued at discretion of the competent authority.[45] > In 1993, Colombia legislated gun ownership, effectively establishing a government licensing monopoly. In 2016, president of Colombia Juan Manuel Santos signed an executive order suspending civilians from carrying firearms, with some exceptions including security details, hunting, private defense and collection. It was extended in 2018 by newly elected president Ivan Duque, albeit with the added stipulation: "for reasons of emergency or security ... taking into consideration among other factors, the particular circumstances of each application". > Gun laws in Honduras are stated in the Act on the Control of Firearms, Ammunition, Explosives and Other Related Material of 2000.[199] In April 2002, the National Arms Registry was formed, requiring all citizens to register their firearms with the Ministry of Defense.[200] > In 2003, a ban on certain "assault rifles" was passed, restricting citizens from possessing military-style rifles such as the AK-47 and the M-16.[201] In 2007, an additional decree suspended the right to openly carry and conceal carry a firearm in public, and limited the number of firearms a person can possess.[202]
pstuart 3y ago
This is one of many indirect yet significant costs of the War on Drugs. The only way to address this is to legalize, tax, and regulate drugs.
- phendrenad2 3y ago
  Counterpoint: Legalization allows the cartels to hide "in plain sight" because people will assume that the operation is legal.
- soligern 3y ago
  Most drugs. This is definitely not going to work with heroin and methamphetamines.
  - HlessClaudesman 3y ago
    Why not? Why wouldn't moving to a harm reduction model for all drugs be a win for everyone except the prison industrial complex?
    - throw_m239339 3y ago
      > Why not? Why wouldn't moving to a harm reduction model for all drugs be a win for everyone except the prison industrial complex? Legalizing all recreational drugs isn't "harm reduction", it's creating a bigger drug addiction pandemic. Successful Harm reduction models like in Portugal have legalized no recreational drugs.
      - hutzlibu 3y ago
        "it's creating a bigger drug addiction pandemic." And why? Those who want drugs, can get (any) drugs today, just with bad quality and the dark sides of crime involved. Who do stuff like adding other drugs that have a higher addiction potential. If you legalize it, all the dark sides of cartels and co vanishes and you can spend all the police money on education and therapy to fight the actual bad sides of drugs. And preventing the reasons for people to do (hard) drugs in the first place.
foogazi 3y ago
Michoacan is bad news Anecdatally, I heard from someone that went back there to visit family for the holidays. They traveled to a ranch town on the countryside. They were stopped at roadblocks where armed men interrogated every man in their group before letting them through
- totallywrong 3y ago
  When I drove through Mexico the police escorted me for a good 90 minutes as I crossed Michoacan, and after that I wasn't allowed to stop (not that I was going to) and had to keep going until Guerrero.
wudangmonk 3y ago
I don't think including Felipe Calderon was a wise choice, his 'war on drugs' is seen as him just wanting to take out the other cartels and replacing them with his own. Did the cartels take him out? I doubt it. Its an open secret in Mexico that these people have to be worried about the police and goverment more than cartels at least until Felipe Calderon changed things.
- lawgimenez 3y ago
  Our country just came out from a brutal war on drugs, nothing good came out of it but only low level street soldiers are being killed. Some masterminds came from the government or cops.
  - jimmychoozyx 3y ago
    Yep. Miguel Felix Gallardo was a Federal Police officer in Mexico ...as well as the godfather of the son of the (1963 to 1968) Governor of the Mexican state of Sinaloa. He is considered one of if not the original cartel drug lord of Mexican cartels, as a/the founder of the Sinaloa cartel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miguel_%C3%81ngel_F%C3%A9lix_Gallardo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miguel_%C3%81ngel_F%C3%A9lix_G...
    - lawgimenez 3y ago
      Or how about the head of the military https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/16/world/americas/mexico-salvador-cienfuegos-arrested.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/16/world/americas/mexico-sal...
29athrowaway 3y ago
Do you have a nice house? a nice car? how did you pay for it? Confiscated. Do you carry a lot of money? Confiscated (civil forfeiture). Did you make a large money transfer over 10,000? Reported to the IRS. Is there something off in your tax return? is there a large fluctuation in money? is there a lot of money from unusual sources? Audited by the IRS. And the list goes on and on. That is the kind of stuff Mexico needs. Do you dress really nicely and have a cool car and house but no university degree, no occupation and cannot explain where your stuff comes from? We confiscate all of your shit just in case. Do you have a degree but talk like you did not go to elementary school? Standardized test follow by the confiscation of all your shit.
- effingwewt 3y ago
  Spoken by someone who's never been to Mexico. You need a functional government to do everything you listed, not that any of it would work. This isn't the movies- the bad guys don't all wear fancy suits. They don't carry millions in cash. And good luck getting anywhere near their property to confiscate anything, you'd have to get past their personal army first. When the cops work for the cartels, and so does the federal government- it becomes almost impossible to restore order. It's early for me, so if the post was sarcasm that flew over my head I apologize on advance. Off to coffee. Edit- last to past. NOW off to coffee.
  - prottog 3y ago
    [dead]
  - 29athrowaway 3y ago
    The premise of being a bad guy is that if you climb the ladder in the organized crime career path, you will be successful. What a government must do, is to completely obliterate the reputation of anyone that could serve as an example of a successful organized crime guy. And instead, leave that person so humiliated so that no one wants to be that person. Something such as "Hey little kid, is this loser your hero? Look what we are going to do to this clown", and then do a full Jackass style movie making fun of the guy, and make everyone believe that guy is the ultimate loser. Also, send the message: if you steal $1, we will have no problem spending $1 million dollars chasing you down. There will be no tolerance for you. Combine two things and what you have is: the defeat of learned helplessless, which is the true epidemic of Mexico. The feeling no one can do anything about it. In truth, you can. You can go where the bully is remind them that bullying you is not for free. Arm every Mexican citizen with an AR-15 on their 15th birthday and then organized crime will be gone in 24 hours. Tell every citizen that if they seize money from organized crime they can keep it, and organized crime will disappear overnight. If you do that, the power will shift from incompetent politicians and organized crime, to the majority of people, who are decent, hardworking individuals that want peace. If you want peace, prepare for war. If your neighbor is Clint Eastwood from Gran Torino you will not mess with that neighboor, and you will probably start using the words "please", "thank you" and "sir" more.

xrd 3y ago

Does anyone else think that the really strange approach to legalization in the US is because the cartels realize that full legalization would result in a radical reduction of profit for them, and that our local governments are probably being bribed or blackmailed into coercing the wrong policies time and time again. Just me?

EinguterTag 3y ago
Full drug legalization? Carteles profits come mostly from cocaine, fentanyl, and meth.

gftttgggfffddd 3y ago

Drug users should stop doing narcotics because of the violence that results. It's not just about being a poor life choice. There are a lot of good folks across the world who live in dangerous communities because others have an appetite for artificial stimulation.

JimtheCoder 3y ago
"Drug users should stop doing narcotics because of the violence that results." I don't think the far away results of their actions are on the minds of junkies when they are looking for a fix. I am not a junkie, so I am just guessing...
- zztop44 3y ago
  Not every drug user is a “junkie”. Anecdotally I know of two past regular cocaine users who stopped precisely because they couldn’t stomach the supply chain ethics.
- pxc 3y ago
  > And how can you put that straw up your nose, when you know how coke is manufactured? > It's made by children for the immature. > It is made by babies who've been captured. > It's a sin against their fellow man! > It's a sin against your fellow man. https://youtu.be/2zpSflrnj-k https://youtu.be/2zpSflrnj-k
FelipeRM 3y ago
It is tempting to believe that drugs are the reason of violence here in Mexico. The reality is way more complex, and these cartels and violent groups with many income sources, corruption is what allow them to flourish. So yeah, drugs are part of the problem but not the main reason.
steve76 3y ago
[dead]
rjbwork 3y ago
Societies should stop criminalizing drugs and drug users. It's not just about being a poor way to govern a society. There are a lot of good folks across the world who live in dangerous communities because others have a predilection for legislating morality and controlling others' bodies.
- JimtheCoder 3y ago
  "because others have a predilection for legislating morality and controlling others' bodies." Are you sure people who want to keep heroin, meth and coke illegal are doing it because they want to legislate morality and control others bodies? Or is it because they don't want to have to deal with the negative effects that these drugs have on their community. Criminalizing them hasn't been the solution, but decriminalizing them will not make things that much better either...
  - rjbwork 3y ago
    Decriminalizing is not enough. Legal, cheap, and with huge amounts of education and medical assistance at dispensation outlets is the only path towards dealing with the problem, IMO. From my perspective, most of the bad effects of those drugs occur due to their illegality. Meth, heroin, cocaine, etc. is pretty fucking dirt cheap to produce. The impurities and high costs and unknown doses and burdens to the carceral system are what impose the bulk of the costs to society.
    - localplume 3y ago
      [dead]
- adolph 3y ago
  As an individual there is an ethical choice to abstain that is outside of criminalization and societal morality. It is similar choice to not eating meat because factory farms lead to poor treatment of other beings. It is similar to riding a bike instead of driving a car.
fisherjeff 3y ago
I mean yeah, there are loads of good reasons to not be addicted to drugs. Now if only those pesky addictions would listen…
dawatchusay 3y ago
It’s certainly not the users’ faults for starters, and “artificial stimulation” should include alcohol and cigarettes which don’t result in situations of the magnitude we see regarding the illegal drug trade, perhaps exactly because they are legal and regulated.
__MatrixMan__ 3y ago
You're not wrong, but no pile of shoulds is going to be effective in this endeavor. Instead, I'd like to work on genetically engineering yeasts and bacteria to synthesize the desired alkaloids in a homebrew setting. It would be more ethical, and probably safer too.
InCityDreams 3y ago
>Drug users should stop doing narcotics because of the violence that results. That's a lot of doctors you're asking a lot of.
Zircom 3y ago
Just as soon as you give up your computer and your iPhone that were made with exploited and/or slave labor :)

0xbadcafebee 3y ago

A real life hero. I hope they make a national day of remembrance in his honor.

peepeepoopoo13 3y ago

> Mexico has extremely restrictive laws regarding gun possession. There are only two stores in the entire country, DCAM near the capital, and OTCA, in Apodaca, Nuevo León. It also takes months of paperwork to have a chance at purchasing one legally. > In 1971, Article 10 of the present Constitution was changed[10] to limit the right to keep arms within the home only (in Spanish: ...derecho a poseer armas en su domicilio...) and reserved the right to bear arms outside the home only to those explicitly authorized by law (i.e. police, military, armed security officers). The following year, the Federal Law of Firearms and Explosives came into force[11] and gave the federal government complete jurisdiction and control to the legal proliferation of firearms in the country; at the same time, heavily limiting and restricting the legal access to firearms by civilians. > As a result of the changes to Article 10 of the Mexican Constitution and the enactment of the Federal Law of Firearms and Explosives, openly carrying a firearm or carrying a concealed weapon in public is virtually forbidden to private citizens, unless explicitly authorized by the Secretariat of National Defense (SEDENA). For purposes of personal protection, firearms are only permitted within the place of residence and of the type and caliber permitted by law. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_regulation_in_Mexico https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_regulation_in_Mexico Why is Mexico such an outlier in terms of the success of gun control? It seemed hugely successful elsewhere in countries like Japan and Sweden.

zztop44 3y ago
One reason is having a giant porous (at least in the north -> south direction) border with the US. They are also a major exporter of illegal drugs to the US (aka the world’s biggest market for illegal drugs), being both a producer and trade route for other producer nations further south. Control of these trade routes is extremely profitable, and guns are super easy to import. It’s not that surprising that the situation is different to Japan or Sweden.
- peepeepoopoo13 3y ago
  It's shocking how far guns can travel from the southern US border. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overview_of_gun_laws_by_nation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overview_of_gun_laws_by_nation > Article 3 of Colombia's firearm law states that civilians may possess firearms only via permit issued at discretion of the competent authority.[45] > In 1993, Colombia legislated gun ownership, effectively establishing a government licensing monopoly. In 2016, president of Colombia Juan Manuel Santos signed an executive order suspending civilians from carrying firearms, with some exceptions including security details, hunting, private defense and collection. It was extended in 2018 by newly elected president Ivan Duque, albeit with the added stipulation: "for reasons of emergency or security ... taking into consideration among other factors, the particular circumstances of each application". > Gun laws in Honduras are stated in the Act on the Control of Firearms, Ammunition, Explosives and Other Related Material of 2000.[199] In April 2002, the National Arms Registry was formed, requiring all citizens to register their firearms with the Ministry of Defense.[200] > In 2003, a ban on certain "assault rifles" was passed, restricting citizens from possessing military-style rifles such as the AK-47 and the M-16.[201] In 2007, an additional decree suspended the right to openly carry and conceal carry a firearm in public, and limited the number of firearms a person can possess.[202]

pstuart 3y ago

This is one of many indirect yet significant costs of the War on Drugs. The only way to address this is to legalize, tax, and regulate drugs.

phendrenad2 3y ago
Counterpoint: Legalization allows the cartels to hide "in plain sight" because people will assume that the operation is legal.
soligern 3y ago
Most drugs. This is definitely not going to work with heroin and methamphetamines.
- HlessClaudesman 3y ago
  Why not? Why wouldn't moving to a harm reduction model for all drugs be a win for everyone except the prison industrial complex?
  - throw_m239339 3y ago
    > Why not? Why wouldn't moving to a harm reduction model for all drugs be a win for everyone except the prison industrial complex? Legalizing all recreational drugs isn't "harm reduction", it's creating a bigger drug addiction pandemic. Successful Harm reduction models like in Portugal have legalized no recreational drugs.
    - hutzlibu 3y ago
      "it's creating a bigger drug addiction pandemic." And why? Those who want drugs, can get (any) drugs today, just with bad quality and the dark sides of crime involved. Who do stuff like adding other drugs that have a higher addiction potential. If you legalize it, all the dark sides of cartels and co vanishes and you can spend all the police money on education and therapy to fight the actual bad sides of drugs. And preventing the reasons for people to do (hard) drugs in the first place.

foogazi 3y ago

Michoacan is bad news Anecdatally, I heard from someone that went back there to visit family for the holidays. They traveled to a ranch town on the countryside. They were stopped at roadblocks where armed men interrogated every man in their group before letting them through

totallywrong 3y ago
When I drove through Mexico the police escorted me for a good 90 minutes as I crossed Michoacan, and after that I wasn't allowed to stop (not that I was going to) and had to keep going until Guerrero.

wudangmonk 3y ago

I don't think including Felipe Calderon was a wise choice, his 'war on drugs' is seen as him just wanting to take out the other cartels and replacing them with his own. Did the cartels take him out? I doubt it. Its an open secret in Mexico that these people have to be worried about the police and goverment more than cartels at least until Felipe Calderon changed things.

lawgimenez 3y ago
Our country just came out from a brutal war on drugs, nothing good came out of it but only low level street soldiers are being killed. Some masterminds came from the government or cops.
- jimmychoozyx 3y ago
  Yep. Miguel Felix Gallardo was a Federal Police officer in Mexico ...as well as the godfather of the son of the (1963 to 1968) Governor of the Mexican state of Sinaloa. He is considered one of if not the original cartel drug lord of Mexican cartels, as a/the founder of the Sinaloa cartel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miguel_%C3%81ngel_F%C3%A9lix_Gallardo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miguel_%C3%81ngel_F%C3%A9lix_G...
  - lawgimenez 3y ago
    Or how about the head of the military https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/16/world/americas/mexico-salvador-cienfuegos-arrested.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/16/world/americas/mexico-sal...

29athrowaway 3y ago

Do you have a nice house? a nice car? how did you pay for it? Confiscated. Do you carry a lot of money? Confiscated (civil forfeiture). Did you make a large money transfer over 10,000? Reported to the IRS. Is there something off in your tax return? is there a large fluctuation in money? is there a lot of money from unusual sources? Audited by the IRS. And the list goes on and on. That is the kind of stuff Mexico needs. Do you dress really nicely and have a cool car and house but no university degree, no occupation and cannot explain where your stuff comes from? We confiscate all of your shit just in case. Do you have a degree but talk like you did not go to elementary school? Standardized test follow by the confiscation of all your shit.

effingwewt 3y ago
Spoken by someone who's never been to Mexico. You need a functional government to do everything you listed, not that any of it would work. This isn't the movies- the bad guys don't all wear fancy suits. They don't carry millions in cash. And good luck getting anywhere near their property to confiscate anything, you'd have to get past their personal army first. When the cops work for the cartels, and so does the federal government- it becomes almost impossible to restore order. It's early for me, so if the post was sarcasm that flew over my head I apologize on advance. Off to coffee. Edit- last to past. NOW off to coffee.
- prottog 3y ago
  [dead]
- 29athrowaway 3y ago
  The premise of being a bad guy is that if you climb the ladder in the organized crime career path, you will be successful. What a government must do, is to completely obliterate the reputation of anyone that could serve as an example of a successful organized crime guy. And instead, leave that person so humiliated so that no one wants to be that person. Something such as "Hey little kid, is this loser your hero? Look what we are going to do to this clown", and then do a full Jackass style movie making fun of the guy, and make everyone believe that guy is the ultimate loser. Also, send the message: if you steal $1, we will have no problem spending $1 million dollars chasing you down. There will be no tolerance for you. Combine two things and what you have is: the defeat of learned helplessless, which is the true epidemic of Mexico. The feeling no one can do anything about it. In truth, you can. You can go where the bully is remind them that bullying you is not for free. Arm every Mexican citizen with an AR-15 on their 15th birthday and then organized crime will be gone in 24 hours. Tell every citizen that if they seize money from organized crime they can keep it, and organized crime will disappear overnight. If you do that, the power will shift from incompetent politicians and organized crime, to the majority of people, who are decent, hardworking individuals that want peace. If you want peace, prepare for war. If your neighbor is Clint Eastwood from Gran Torino you will not mess with that neighboor, and you will probably start using the words "please", "thank you" and "sir" more.