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Most bread you get from a supermarket (even outside the US) is highly processed garbage, as are many common sandwich fillings (mayo, salami, margarine). The typ

Most bread you get from a supermarket (even outside the US) is highly processed garbage, as are many common sandwich fillings (mayo, salami, margarine). The typical sandwich is probably up there with many of the other least healthy things you could eat, so yeah, ground up wheat with filling to make it taste good is probably fair.

hombre_fatal 3y ago
I don’t see how that’s the case except for a fear of “processing”. I plug two slices of commercial whole wheat store bought bread into Cronometer and it has an impressive mineral breakdown and 14% of the day's nutrient needs.
- fatfingerd 3y ago
  Lack of bioavailability analysis and links between processed meat and cancer are fears... of the established scientific community.
  - hombre_fatal 3y ago
    Sure. This thread is talking about bread. Processed wheat products like bread and seitan are nutrient dense foods usually caught in the social media meme diet crossfire.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - ahoka 3y ago
      Bread is ultra processed.
      - hombre_fatal 3y ago
        Yes, so is chocolate and tofu. Why should I care unless it's bad for me? Using processing as an end-all heuristic loses sight of the characteristic that the heuristic is trying to approximate.
  - maxk42 3y ago
    Bioavailability isn't the while story: some foods can be too bioavailable (and not great for you when consuming too much) such as sugars which can cause your body to form inappropriate hormonal signals and disrupt normal satiety. (Looking at you, fructose!) Additionally, there are literally thousands of antinutrients, toxins, carcinogens, and endocrine disruptors that simply aren't accounted for in normal nutritional analyses.
    - hombre_fatal 3y ago
      To make things even worse, on the other side of your last sentence, a lot of so called toxins and antinutrients are just orthorexic memes: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7600777/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7600777/ ("Is There Such a Thing as “Anti-Nutrients”? A Narrative Review of Perceived Problematic Plant Compounds") And an example of a nutrient that can be too bioavailable for some people is heme-iron, yet if you were to follow nutrition influencers online you might think that heme-iron was essential. A young man doesn't necessary want it. Yet anemic women might. Very confusing space to navigate which I think is one of the main reasons we tend to get sucked into diet camps, all of them promising to cut through the BS while coming to vastly different conclusions.
SamoyedFurFluff 3y ago
Mayo is processed garbage?? Please explain. It’s whipped egg with lemon and oil, maybe some salt.
- nonethewiser 3y ago
  Helmans also uses Calcium Disodium EDTA for shelf life. Im not saying its bad, or being processed is bad, but its manufactured at scale with additional ingredients to make it shelf stable. Its not the same thing you make at home. Frankly I think thats fine.
  - hedora 3y ago
    Being processed is definitely bad on average, if only due to foods having lower fiber content and higher salt content.
  - rootusrootus 3y ago
    > Helmans also uses Calcium Disodium EDTA for shelf life. Maybe it has helped remove built up lead from long term exposure before unleaded gasoline was mandated.
- hedora 3y ago
  For a while it was loaded with trans fat and artificial flavors. These days, it’s actually listed as compatible with heart healthy diets (the oil is typically a “good fat”, and the eggs raise cholesterol levels data is weak at best)
- vladvasiliu 3y ago
  It may depend on the brands, but one big brand of mayo here in France (Amora) has all kinds of weird crap, apart from "whipped egg with lemon and oil". It has rapeseed oil, which to me seems dubious since it requires special processing to make it non-toxic. It only has 5.1% eggs (according to the label). It also has "flavorings", thickeners and coloring agents. So yeah, it's nothing like the homemade mayo I make, which only has olive oil, a bunch of eggs, mustard, and indeed some salt. Mine doesn't need any sort of coloring and is thick enough.
newaccount74 3y ago
I'm so tired of people using "processed" as a negative attribute. First of all, it implies that industrial processes are less healthy than manual processes. But in my opinion, it makes no difference if sodium nitrate is added in a meat processing plant, or by an artisanal butcher on locally sourced hand made organic bacon. The health effects are going to be the same. Secondly, it implies that there is something bad about "processing" in general, whatever is meant by that. But I think that most people would agree that pasteurizing milk is a good thing for our health, even though it is a form of "processing".

hombre_fatal 3y ago

I don’t see how that’s the case except for a fear of “processing”. I plug two slices of commercial whole wheat store bought bread into Cronometer and it has an impressive mineral breakdown and 14% of the day's nutrient needs.

fatfingerd 3y ago
Lack of bioavailability analysis and links between processed meat and cancer are fears... of the established scientific community.
- hombre_fatal 3y ago
  Sure. This thread is talking about bread. Processed wheat products like bread and seitan are nutrient dense foods usually caught in the social media meme diet crossfire.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - ahoka 3y ago
    Bread is ultra processed.
    - hombre_fatal 3y ago
      Yes, so is chocolate and tofu. Why should I care unless it's bad for me? Using processing as an end-all heuristic loses sight of the characteristic that the heuristic is trying to approximate.
- maxk42 3y ago
  Bioavailability isn't the while story: some foods can be too bioavailable (and not great for you when consuming too much) such as sugars which can cause your body to form inappropriate hormonal signals and disrupt normal satiety. (Looking at you, fructose!) Additionally, there are literally thousands of antinutrients, toxins, carcinogens, and endocrine disruptors that simply aren't accounted for in normal nutritional analyses.
  - hombre_fatal 3y ago
    To make things even worse, on the other side of your last sentence, a lot of so called toxins and antinutrients are just orthorexic memes: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7600777/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7600777/ ("Is There Such a Thing as “Anti-Nutrients”? A Narrative Review of Perceived Problematic Plant Compounds") And an example of a nutrient that can be too bioavailable for some people is heme-iron, yet if you were to follow nutrition influencers online you might think that heme-iron was essential. A young man doesn't necessary want it. Yet anemic women might. Very confusing space to navigate which I think is one of the main reasons we tend to get sucked into diet camps, all of them promising to cut through the BS while coming to vastly different conclusions.

SamoyedFurFluff 3y ago

Mayo is processed garbage?? Please explain. It’s whipped egg with lemon and oil, maybe some salt.

nonethewiser 3y ago
Helmans also uses Calcium Disodium EDTA for shelf life. Im not saying its bad, or being processed is bad, but its manufactured at scale with additional ingredients to make it shelf stable. Its not the same thing you make at home. Frankly I think thats fine.
- hedora 3y ago
  Being processed is definitely bad on average, if only due to foods having lower fiber content and higher salt content.
- rootusrootus 3y ago
  > Helmans also uses Calcium Disodium EDTA for shelf life. Maybe it has helped remove built up lead from long term exposure before unleaded gasoline was mandated.
hedora 3y ago
For a while it was loaded with trans fat and artificial flavors. These days, it’s actually listed as compatible with heart healthy diets (the oil is typically a “good fat”, and the eggs raise cholesterol levels data is weak at best)
vladvasiliu 3y ago
It may depend on the brands, but one big brand of mayo here in France (Amora) has all kinds of weird crap, apart from "whipped egg with lemon and oil". It has rapeseed oil, which to me seems dubious since it requires special processing to make it non-toxic. It only has 5.1% eggs (according to the label). It also has "flavorings", thickeners and coloring agents. So yeah, it's nothing like the homemade mayo I make, which only has olive oil, a bunch of eggs, mustard, and indeed some salt. Mine doesn't need any sort of coloring and is thick enough.

newaccount74 3y ago

I'm so tired of people using "processed" as a negative attribute. First of all, it implies that industrial processes are less healthy than manual processes. But in my opinion, it makes no difference if sodium nitrate is added in a meat processing plant, or by an artisanal butcher on locally sourced hand made organic bacon. The health effects are going to be the same. Secondly, it implies that there is something bad about "processing" in general, whatever is meant by that. But I think that most people would agree that pasteurizing milk is a good thing for our health, even though it is a form of "processing".