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The investigation is not the primary reason your told the leave your stuff its to avoid delays in an evacuation. Imagine that the plane was less lucky I fire ha

The investigation is not the primary reason your told the leave your stuff its to avoid delays in an evacuation. Imagine that the plane was less lucky I fire had started in the front nose cone section. Then people trying to get there bags could jeopardize the safety of the passengers in the front of the plane.

phpisthebest 3y ago
You have completely miss understood the complaint. The complaint is about the FAA hold passenger items after the emergnecy is over while they "investigate" The process should be Evac -> Fire Dept clears the plane > Airline gets passengers there stuff it should not be Evac > Fire Dept > NTSB Looks at things > FAA Looks at things > Someone 3 years later Passengers get their things because the FAA as the latter policy, people will be more prone to try to take their stuff, then if they knew once evacuated they would get their belongings before leaving the airport, not at some undetermined time later FAA Policy increases the danger for everyone.
- ithkuil 3y ago
  In other words: It's understandable that when confronted with an irresponsible behaviour of one particular person we tend to blame that person for being irresponsible. But the fact is that there will be a given number of irresponsible people around. It's also irresponsible to set up rules in such a way to make it more likely that some irresponsible people will do irresponsible things. Especially when there may be other rules that could reduce the chances.
  - Dylan16807 3y ago
    That's the pure safety analysis. There's also "why are you not giving people their bags promptly, you assholes". Also important medication can get left behind, as someone else mentioned. It's worth some risk to delay for some seconds in that case, where math can tell you the exact amounts.
    - vba616 3y ago
      It's one thing to do the math to estimate how many idiots there are. It's another thing to claim that the idiots are doing the math. To describe throwing a ball, you may use calculus. But if you then reason that people who throw things must know calculus, that's going to lead to incorrect inferences and decisions. (as you may know it's not allowed to say "correlation != causation" on HN so I'm not saying that)
      - Dylan16807 3y ago
        > It's another thing to claim that the idiots are doing the math. Did someone say that? If someone keeps a bag because they don't trust the airline, that's an emotional decision, not a math one.
        vba616 3y ago
        Ok. I'm maybe not following your point. Do you think the FAA's policy is a problem?
        Dylan16807 3y ago
        I do. For three reasons: 1. If people are worried nobody will get their bags for a long time, they'll be less likely to follow safety protocols and leave them behind. 2. It's bad to take people's things away for a long time. 3. Even if you assume people will obey, it can cause more harm than good in non-dire situations. None of those reasons require the passengers to be notably logical. And I have no idea what correlation you're talking about.
        vba616 3y ago
        People worry in an emergency because they don't know what's going to happen. People do not worry more or less because of some particular 1 in a billion billion event that happened yesterday. Well, maybe yesterday, but wait a day! On the other hand, revising rules and regulations would have real costs for you the taxpayer.
- vba616 3y ago
  >because the FAA as the latter policy, people will be more prone to try to take their stuff Approximately nobody in an actual emergency has any idea of the details of FAA policies or is running through their logical implications, come ON. The reason people do stupid things is they are in shock and they revert to ingrained habits and behavior because it's really hard to do any higher level thinking at that moment.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > nobody in an actual emergency has any idea of the details of FAA policies or is running through their logical implications It certainly occurs to me now. I'm not going to pull an overhead item. But I may be more inclined to grab my laptop if it's already in the seat in front of me. More productively: if you can honestly say that passengers will get their onboard items within 7 days of an emergency during the in-flight safety message, maybe you'll influence behavior.
    - vba616 3y ago
      >if you can honestly say that passengers will get their onboard items within 7 days of an emergency You can't honestly say that...that's why it's an emergency. Everybody knows that, so you can't change behavior.
- lxgr 3y ago
  > Someone 3 years later Passengers get their things It's been a couple of hours since the incident. I think calling three years is premature.

phpisthebest 3y ago

You have completely miss understood the complaint. The complaint is about the FAA hold passenger items after the emergnecy is over while they "investigate" The process should be Evac -> Fire Dept clears the plane > Airline gets passengers there stuff it should not be Evac > Fire Dept > NTSB Looks at things > FAA Looks at things > Someone 3 years later Passengers get their things because the FAA as the latter policy, people will be more prone to try to take their stuff, then if they knew once evacuated they would get their belongings before leaving the airport, not at some undetermined time later FAA Policy increases the danger for everyone.

ithkuil 3y ago
In other words: It's understandable that when confronted with an irresponsible behaviour of one particular person we tend to blame that person for being irresponsible. But the fact is that there will be a given number of irresponsible people around. It's also irresponsible to set up rules in such a way to make it more likely that some irresponsible people will do irresponsible things. Especially when there may be other rules that could reduce the chances.
- Dylan16807 3y ago
  That's the pure safety analysis. There's also "why are you not giving people their bags promptly, you assholes". Also important medication can get left behind, as someone else mentioned. It's worth some risk to delay for some seconds in that case, where math can tell you the exact amounts.
  - vba616 3y ago
    It's one thing to do the math to estimate how many idiots there are. It's another thing to claim that the idiots are doing the math. To describe throwing a ball, you may use calculus. But if you then reason that people who throw things must know calculus, that's going to lead to incorrect inferences and decisions. (as you may know it's not allowed to say "correlation != causation" on HN so I'm not saying that)
    - Dylan16807 3y ago
      > It's another thing to claim that the idiots are doing the math. Did someone say that? If someone keeps a bag because they don't trust the airline, that's an emotional decision, not a math one.
      - vba616 3y ago
        Ok. I'm maybe not following your point. Do you think the FAA's policy is a problem?
        Dylan16807 3y ago
        I do. For three reasons: 1. If people are worried nobody will get their bags for a long time, they'll be less likely to follow safety protocols and leave them behind. 2. It's bad to take people's things away for a long time. 3. Even if you assume people will obey, it can cause more harm than good in non-dire situations. None of those reasons require the passengers to be notably logical. And I have no idea what correlation you're talking about.
        vba616 3y ago
        People worry in an emergency because they don't know what's going to happen. People do not worry more or less because of some particular 1 in a billion billion event that happened yesterday. Well, maybe yesterday, but wait a day! On the other hand, revising rules and regulations would have real costs for you the taxpayer.
vba616 3y ago
>because the FAA as the latter policy, people will be more prone to try to take their stuff Approximately nobody in an actual emergency has any idea of the details of FAA policies or is running through their logical implications, come ON. The reason people do stupid things is they are in shock and they revert to ingrained habits and behavior because it's really hard to do any higher level thinking at that moment.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > nobody in an actual emergency has any idea of the details of FAA policies or is running through their logical implications It certainly occurs to me now. I'm not going to pull an overhead item. But I may be more inclined to grab my laptop if it's already in the seat in front of me. More productively: if you can honestly say that passengers will get their onboard items within 7 days of an emergency during the in-flight safety message, maybe you'll influence behavior.
  - vba616 3y ago
    >if you can honestly say that passengers will get their onboard items within 7 days of an emergency You can't honestly say that...that's why it's an emergency. Everybody knows that, so you can't change behavior.
lxgr 3y ago
> Someone 3 years later Passengers get their things It's been a couple of hours since the incident. I think calling three years is premature.