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I am amazed to see people defending AMZN in these threads. They are so obviously monopolistic with such a plethora of problems with the way the treat consumers,

I am amazed to see people defending AMZN in these threads. They are so obviously monopolistic with such a plethora of problems with the way the treat consumers, workers, businesses, and the planet. More power to the FTC -- just wish they had taken these actions sooner.

gochi 3y ago
I also don't really get the desire to defend them even if you were a loyal fan. Outside of AWS, none of their services are good anymore and have deteriorated. The only reason people think Prime is even valuable is because of the quantity > quality overriding people's rational. Amazon (the storefront) has turned into Aliexpress but with the shoddiest random brands ever like XYGHY selling you a product they're dropshipping for a 300% markup. They've turned into the store where it's only worth using to get AmazonBasics from.
- dv_dt 3y ago
  Prime shipping has degraded to me to the point that 20% and rising of the orders are late, and that’s with a recent warehouse in the same city.
  - KennyBlanken 3y ago
    ...and of course our state AGs and the FTC are doing nothing about holding Amazon accountable for claiming prime = 1 day shipping.
  - bostik 3y ago
    I might well be one of the very few people in the thread who can still benefit from prime shipping. We have an Amazon prime depot about 10 minute walk from our house. The drivers can schedule their deliveries to us either to the beginning or end of their routes, and that shows: we get prime shipping for almost everything. In fact, trying to batch individual items into fewer deliveries is not necessarily even an option anymore. It's rare that I need the order in for next day, and I'd be happy to have the whole batch delivered in 2-3 days. But no, I get a small batch on next day, one item on day 2 and two more on day 3. There is no - or very rarely - option to select "all of these in one go, on day 3, please". Then again, I live in UK, in the weird place that's both in London and in Kent at the same time. That said, when we do need next-day delivery, it tends to be available for about 50% of the time.
    - sdflhasjd 3y ago
      What does the "end of the route" look like for you? For me, along with the worsening reliability of prime, it's just getting later and later. When first moved into this address, deliveries were generally before 3. Slowly that became 5, then 7. Finally, to take the absolute piss this has become as late as 10pm, which is not what I call "next day" and at that point I don't really want it delivered at all.
      - bostik 3y ago
        Rarely much later than than after 7, usually between 14:00 and 17:00 in the afternoon. In a rather bizarre twist, maybe slightly less than half the time _before_ 14:30. Never before 09:45 I think we've had two deliveries after 20:00 in the past year.
  - nilespotter 3y ago
    I let my prime membership lapse last year and I barely notice the difference. I stopped shopping there as much and started queuing things up into batches to meet the free shipping without prime threshold. Now that threshold seems to be zero, I still get free shipping on everything. It takes a little bit longer, like 1-2 days, sometimes, that's it.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- technothrasher 3y ago
  > They've turned into the store where it's only worth using to get AmazonBasics from. Some that is because if anything does well in their marketplace, they make an AmazonBasics version and then undercut them.
hbosch 3y ago
I don't think it's so much about defending AMZN as it is recognizing what a weak case the FTC chose. It's going to amount to a mere slap on the wrist for Amazon, in reality. This suit does nothing to limit the velocity Amazon has in entertainment, retail, payments, cloud and so on.
prepend 3y ago
I don’t think I’m defending Amazon so much as noting that Amazon does not have a monopoly on retail or even e-commerce. I don’t think issues should be picking sides so much as seeking the truth. Amazon had 38% of online retail market share [0] and only 9% of total retail market share [1]. So I think it’s going to be hard to show antitrust violations without some price collusion. [0] https://www.statista.com/statistics/274255/market-share-of-the-leading-retailers-in-us-e-commerce/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/274255/market-share-of-t... [1] https://www.pymnts.com/news/retail/2022/amazon-and-walmart-market-share-battle-crossed-new-lines-in-2022/ https://www.pymnts.com/news/retail/2022/amazon-and-walmart-m...
- lisasays 3y ago
  Anitrust actions do not require the presence of a monopoly. Rather, they addresses situations where companies unreasonably exert power to lessen competition. The idea is to prevent monopolies from forming in the first place.
  - prepend 3y ago
    > unreasonably exert power to lessen competition. The unreasonable part is where the monopoly power comes in. Companies lessening competition happens all the time, it’s the monopoly aspect that triggers antitrust.
    - grimgoldgo 3y ago
      There are three primary antitrust laws, only one of them focuses on monopoly power in the way you describe. The Clayton and FTC acts are broader.
    - ThatPlayer 3y ago
      Monopoly power does not require a literal monopoly. Straight from the FTC: https://www.ftc.gov/advice-guidance/competition-guidance/guide-antitrust-laws/single-firm-conduct/monopolization-defined https://www.ftc.gov/advice-guidance/competition-guidance/gui... > Courts do not require a literal monopoly before applying rules for single firm conduct; that term is used as shorthand for a firm with significant and durable market power I'd say Amazon has "significant and durable market power"
Nasrudith 3y ago
Remember the FTC and their laughably ill-prepared anti-trust lawsuit against then Facebook? They tried table-pounding instead of doing their homework to properly define the area of monopoly and got their case thrown out.
wefarrell 3y ago
Amazon has been able to get away with a lot because for a long time their customer experience was fantastic. You could buy pretty much anything knowing it was the lowest price, get it in a day or two, and return it for pretty much any reason. Over time the experience degraded because they encouraged cheaply copying popular products, and then they even did it themselves and competed with their sellers. And of course their anticompetitive practices have made things much worse for those sellers.

gochi 3y ago

I also don't really get the desire to defend them even if you were a loyal fan. Outside of AWS, none of their services are good anymore and have deteriorated. The only reason people think Prime is even valuable is because of the quantity > quality overriding people's rational. Amazon (the storefront) has turned into Aliexpress but with the shoddiest random brands ever like XYGHY selling you a product they're dropshipping for a 300% markup. They've turned into the store where it's only worth using to get AmazonBasics from.

dv_dt 3y ago
Prime shipping has degraded to me to the point that 20% and rising of the orders are late, and that’s with a recent warehouse in the same city.
- KennyBlanken 3y ago
  ...and of course our state AGs and the FTC are doing nothing about holding Amazon accountable for claiming prime = 1 day shipping.
- bostik 3y ago
  I might well be one of the very few people in the thread who can still benefit from prime shipping. We have an Amazon prime depot about 10 minute walk from our house. The drivers can schedule their deliveries to us either to the beginning or end of their routes, and that shows: we get prime shipping for almost everything. In fact, trying to batch individual items into fewer deliveries is not necessarily even an option anymore. It's rare that I need the order in for next day, and I'd be happy to have the whole batch delivered in 2-3 days. But no, I get a small batch on next day, one item on day 2 and two more on day 3. There is no - or very rarely - option to select "all of these in one go, on day 3, please". Then again, I live in UK, in the weird place that's both in London and in Kent at the same time. That said, when we do need next-day delivery, it tends to be available for about 50% of the time.
  - sdflhasjd 3y ago
    What does the "end of the route" look like for you? For me, along with the worsening reliability of prime, it's just getting later and later. When first moved into this address, deliveries were generally before 3. Slowly that became 5, then 7. Finally, to take the absolute piss this has become as late as 10pm, which is not what I call "next day" and at that point I don't really want it delivered at all.
    - bostik 3y ago
      Rarely much later than than after 7, usually between 14:00 and 17:00 in the afternoon. In a rather bizarre twist, maybe slightly less than half the time _before_ 14:30. Never before 09:45 I think we've had two deliveries after 20:00 in the past year.
- nilespotter 3y ago
  I let my prime membership lapse last year and I barely notice the difference. I stopped shopping there as much and started queuing things up into batches to meet the free shipping without prime threshold. Now that threshold seems to be zero, I still get free shipping on everything. It takes a little bit longer, like 1-2 days, sometimes, that's it.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
technothrasher 3y ago
> They've turned into the store where it's only worth using to get AmazonBasics from. Some that is because if anything does well in their marketplace, they make an AmazonBasics version and then undercut them.

hbosch 3y ago

I don't think it's so much about defending AMZN as it is recognizing what a weak case the FTC chose. It's going to amount to a mere slap on the wrist for Amazon, in reality. This suit does nothing to limit the velocity Amazon has in entertainment, retail, payments, cloud and so on.

prepend 3y ago

I don’t think I’m defending Amazon so much as noting that Amazon does not have a monopoly on retail or even e-commerce. I don’t think issues should be picking sides so much as seeking the truth. Amazon had 38% of online retail market share [0] and only 9% of total retail market share [1]. So I think it’s going to be hard to show antitrust violations without some price collusion. [0] https://www.statista.com/statistics/274255/market-share-of-the-leading-retailers-in-us-e-commerce/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/274255/market-share-of-t... [1] https://www.pymnts.com/news/retail/2022/amazon-and-walmart-market-share-battle-crossed-new-lines-in-2022/ https://www.pymnts.com/news/retail/2022/amazon-and-walmart-m...

lisasays 3y ago
Anitrust actions do not require the presence of a monopoly. Rather, they addresses situations where companies unreasonably exert power to lessen competition. The idea is to prevent monopolies from forming in the first place.
- prepend 3y ago
  > unreasonably exert power to lessen competition. The unreasonable part is where the monopoly power comes in. Companies lessening competition happens all the time, it’s the monopoly aspect that triggers antitrust.
  - grimgoldgo 3y ago
    There are three primary antitrust laws, only one of them focuses on monopoly power in the way you describe. The Clayton and FTC acts are broader.
  - ThatPlayer 3y ago
    Monopoly power does not require a literal monopoly. Straight from the FTC: https://www.ftc.gov/advice-guidance/competition-guidance/guide-antitrust-laws/single-firm-conduct/monopolization-defined https://www.ftc.gov/advice-guidance/competition-guidance/gui... > Courts do not require a literal monopoly before applying rules for single firm conduct; that term is used as shorthand for a firm with significant and durable market power I'd say Amazon has "significant and durable market power"

Nasrudith 3y ago

Remember the FTC and their laughably ill-prepared anti-trust lawsuit against then Facebook? They tried table-pounding instead of doing their homework to properly define the area of monopoly and got their case thrown out.

wefarrell 3y ago

Amazon has been able to get away with a lot because for a long time their customer experience was fantastic. You could buy pretty much anything knowing it was the lowest price, get it in a day or two, and return it for pretty much any reason. Over time the experience degraded because they encouraged cheaply copying popular products, and then they even did it themselves and competed with their sellers. And of course their anticompetitive practices have made things much worse for those sellers.