5 ms·

The rest of the developed world: why do you care so much about race? Just decide on household income

SAI_Peregrinus 3y ago
That would run the risk of helping the poor. We don't like doing that here in the USA.
BobbyJo 3y ago
> Just decide on household income Why not just decide on a test scores? Or just grades? Or just sports? Because there is no silver bullet measurement for "how deserving is this kid?" I'd venture to guess that if you asked 50 people how to measure someone's worth with regard to some goal you'd get 50 different answers.
- Izikiel43 3y ago
  Test scores and income are enough, as they are objective measurements. Grades, as mentioned in another comment, are not consistent across different high schools, and they favor people with more resources. Sports, as in play in the university team, which demands high performance, is also fair, and probably doesn't demand a lot of places, as you can't have a sports team with hundreds of people.
  - bobthepanda 3y ago
    The issue is that also, generally speaking, anyone who was legally discriminated against probably lives in a jurisdiction performing poorly in test scores, since all schooling in the US are based on geographic districts funded by local property tax, and due to historic discrimination the formerly discriminated groups also live in areas with lower housing wealth. (A lot of people also moved out of districts with large minority populations when integration was mandated, taking their taxes and wealth with them.) Want to make a bunch of people very angry? Propose a metropolitan-area wide school district.
    - Izikiel43 3y ago
      > areas with lower housing wealth. So, in other words, lower income.
      - bobthepanda 3y ago
        Not quite, because you can be house-poor due to luck with owning, and also owning a ‘bad’ house in, say, New York City would give you a high paper net worth when comparing to the entire country.
        Izikiel43 3y ago
        That’s why I mentioned income, not net worth.
        bobthepanda 3y ago
        There are also large differences in salaries and income across the country due to variance in cost of living. Poor in New York may be a decent wage in Gary or Biloxi.
    - marcosdumay 3y ago
      > Want to make a bunch of people very angry? Propose a metropolitan-area wide school district. By that you mean that kids can not choose their school on the US?
      - purpleblue 3y ago
        No they can't. That's why Republicans are a big proponent of school vouchers so that parents can choose which school a child can go to, but Democrats say that is racist.
      - sib 3y ago
        Correct. If you live in [poor high-percentage African-American town in Alabama] you cannot choose to go to high school in [wealthy mostly-white town in Massachusetts]. (Setting aside private schools...)
  - BobbyJo 3y ago
    Are test score objective? If your school doesn't prepare you for the test doesn't that skew things just as much as schools inflating grades?
    - tester756 3y ago
      Good thing that you don't have to rely on school and start putting effort yourself Skew the odds
    - Izikiel43 3y ago
      If you don't put any independent effort, then the tests would match whatever the school taught. However, you do have the opportunity to apply yourself and put all the extra effort you need to get a higher grade, independent of your school. The things that would matter there are family support, not in economical sense, but in moral support that your extra effort is right.

That would run the risk of helping the poor. We don't like doing that here in the USA.

> Just decide on household income Why not just decide on a test scores? Or just grades? Or just sports? Because there is no silver bullet measurement for "how deserving is this kid?" I'd venture to guess that if you asked 50 people how to measure someone's worth with regard to some goal you'd get 50 different answers.

Izikiel43 3y ago
Test scores and income are enough, as they are objective measurements. Grades, as mentioned in another comment, are not consistent across different high schools, and they favor people with more resources. Sports, as in play in the university team, which demands high performance, is also fair, and probably doesn't demand a lot of places, as you can't have a sports team with hundreds of people.
- bobthepanda 3y ago
  The issue is that also, generally speaking, anyone who was legally discriminated against probably lives in a jurisdiction performing poorly in test scores, since all schooling in the US are based on geographic districts funded by local property tax, and due to historic discrimination the formerly discriminated groups also live in areas with lower housing wealth. (A lot of people also moved out of districts with large minority populations when integration was mandated, taking their taxes and wealth with them.) Want to make a bunch of people very angry? Propose a metropolitan-area wide school district.
  - Izikiel43 3y ago
    > areas with lower housing wealth. So, in other words, lower income.
    - bobthepanda 3y ago
      Not quite, because you can be house-poor due to luck with owning, and also owning a ‘bad’ house in, say, New York City would give you a high paper net worth when comparing to the entire country.
      - Izikiel43 3y ago
        That’s why I mentioned income, not net worth.
        bobthepanda 3y ago
        There are also large differences in salaries and income across the country due to variance in cost of living. Poor in New York may be a decent wage in Gary or Biloxi.
  - marcosdumay 3y ago
    > Want to make a bunch of people very angry? Propose a metropolitan-area wide school district. By that you mean that kids can not choose their school on the US?
    - purpleblue 3y ago
      No they can't. That's why Republicans are a big proponent of school vouchers so that parents can choose which school a child can go to, but Democrats say that is racist.
    - sib 3y ago
      Correct. If you live in [poor high-percentage African-American town in Alabama] you cannot choose to go to high school in [wealthy mostly-white town in Massachusetts]. (Setting aside private schools...)
- BobbyJo 3y ago
  Are test score objective? If your school doesn't prepare you for the test doesn't that skew things just as much as schools inflating grades?
  - tester756 3y ago
    Good thing that you don't have to rely on school and start putting effort yourself Skew the odds
  - Izikiel43 3y ago
    If you don't put any independent effort, then the tests would match whatever the school taught. However, you do have the opportunity to apply yourself and put all the extra effort you need to get a higher grade, independent of your school. The things that would matter there are family support, not in economical sense, but in moral support that your extra effort is right.