13 ms·

Do you think that Dr. King would argue that, aside from affirmative action, we live in such a world today?

by Timon3 3y ago

JKCalhoun 3y ago
Yeah, arguing with my dad some time back he says, "Minorities have unfair rights over whites: affirmative action." "Name another," was my response.
- ahtihn 3y ago
  Name a single unfair right that whites have over others, today?
  - djur 3y ago
    Representation in the Senate.
  - Volundr 3y ago
    None. Non-whites have plenty of unfair disadvantages however.
    - charlieyu1 3y ago
      Let’s fix the unfair stuff instead of introducing more unfair stuff then
  - panarchy 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - swagasaurus-rex 3y ago
      These are all statistical measures. For any one individual may not see the benefits of these privileges. Grouping everybody into their race and statistics will tell you there is variation. That's unavoidable. There are thousands of homeless white men in my city. Maybe police interactions might be calmer for them, but what does it matter for somebody whose life is sliding downhill often by their own addictions? This is why the focus on race seems like such a distraction to me. We could be helping the poor when we're still too busy discussing race and ethnicity.
      - Timon3 3y ago
        > These are all statistical measures. For any one individual may not see the benefits of these privileges. Grouping everybody into their race and statistics will tell you there is variation. That's unavoidable. Some variation is unavoidable, but statistically significant variation isn't! Why should people in those underpriviledged groups accept a society which gives them fewer chances? > There are thousands of homeless white men in my city. Maybe police interactions might be calmer for them, but what does it matter for somebody whose life is sliding downhill often by their own addictions? Yes, it does matter? If police interactions are calmer and you live longer, you have more chances to turn your life around. We as a society have more chances to help them. > This is why the focus on race seems like such a distraction to me. We could be helping the poor when we're still too busy discussing race and ethnicity. We should help the poor, and we should work to remove disparities between races and ethnicities. Why are those things opposed in your mind?
        swagasaurus-rex 3y ago
        1) Many people of that race may be independently wealthy and do not need help. Grouping people by race is a bad measure of “need” 2) I haven’t heard realistic plans for actually helping people of a specific race. Helping poor people seems achievable, helping black people sounds presumptuous. 3) Race itself is a nebulous grouping with many edge cases. 4) You could easily find other ways to group people to locate “disadvantage”. Religion is an easy one, but affirmative action based of religion sounds quite discriminatory. 5) The focus on race is actually just racist. People’s difficulty of life is not measured by privilege but by actual experiences.
        Timon3 3y ago
        > 1) Many people of that race may be independently wealthy and do not need help. Grouping people by race is a bad measure of “need” But people are being treated badly due to their race. Why can't we use race as one criterium to decide who needs help? Why do we have to pretend that racism isn't a real social thing that affects peoples lives? > 2) I haven’t heard realistic plans for actually helping people of a specific race. Helping poor people seems achievable, helping black people sounds presumptuous. Well, if you define these plans as unrealistic you're not going to find realistic plans. But affirmative action for example is a very realistic plan - so much so that it is (or was) reality! > 3) Race itself is a nebulous grouping with many edge cases. Sure, but people are being treated badly due to those nebulous groupings with many edge cases. Why do we have to ignore that? > 4) You could easily find other ways to group people to locate “disadvantage”. Religion is an easy one, but affirmative action based of religion sounds quite discriminatory. Do you have statistics showing that a similarly statistically significant difference exists between different religions? > 5) The focus on race is actually just racist. People’s difficulty of life is not measured by privilege but by actual experiences. "The people who identify racism are the real racists!" isn't as good of an argument as you think. People have different experiences due to their race. Attempting to find ways to curb that isn't "racist", it's "normal social behavior".
- Der_Einzige 3y ago
  I can name several more 1. Communal cultures and stronger family structures. White Americans are insanely atomized and individualistic and that is a serious issue 2. Birthrates/Fertility 3. Far better food/cooking and eating 4. Cultural control, especially in music and to a lesser extent in sports. 5. In the case of certain immigrant groups, significantly higher family wealth than the average white american 6. In the case of some ethnic groups, significantly better physical prowess (it's a handful of tribes where many of the best runners come from) Obviously these are not all that significant compared to the disadvantages, but the idea that there are no other "unfair advantages" is just wrong.
  - sotorfl 3y ago
    [dead]
  - kacesensitive 3y ago
    1. Not a right 2. Not a right 3. Not a right 4. Not a right 5. Not a right 6. Holy shit not a right
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- hackeraccount 3y ago
  Do you think being an African American hurt Barak Obama's chance to be the Democratic nominee for President? Or to be elected President? To answer my own question - it's complicated; it did hurt him in some regards but it helped him too. There were a lot of people in the primary and general election who wanted to know they weren't prejudiced and voted for him at least in part for that reason. This wasn't legal affirmative action. It was something else. I don't know if I'd call it an "unfair right" but for the right person in the right circumstance it can be an advantage. Does it out weigh all the disadvantages? Probably not.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- bombcar 3y ago
  Higher successful suicide attempts I guess.

Do you think that Dr. King would argue that, aside from affirmative action, we live in such a world today?

by Timon3 3y ago

Do you think that Dr. King would argue that, aside from affirmative action, we live in such a world today?

Yeah, arguing with my dad some time back he says, "Minorities have unfair rights over whites: affirmative action." "Name another," was my response.

ahtihn 3y ago
Name a single unfair right that whites have over others, today?
- djur 3y ago
  Representation in the Senate.
- Volundr 3y ago
  None. Non-whites have plenty of unfair disadvantages however.
  - charlieyu1 3y ago
    Let’s fix the unfair stuff instead of introducing more unfair stuff then
- panarchy 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - swagasaurus-rex 3y ago
    These are all statistical measures. For any one individual may not see the benefits of these privileges. Grouping everybody into their race and statistics will tell you there is variation. That's unavoidable. There are thousands of homeless white men in my city. Maybe police interactions might be calmer for them, but what does it matter for somebody whose life is sliding downhill often by their own addictions? This is why the focus on race seems like such a distraction to me. We could be helping the poor when we're still too busy discussing race and ethnicity.
    - Timon3 3y ago
      > These are all statistical measures. For any one individual may not see the benefits of these privileges. Grouping everybody into their race and statistics will tell you there is variation. That's unavoidable. Some variation is unavoidable, but statistically significant variation isn't! Why should people in those underpriviledged groups accept a society which gives them fewer chances? > There are thousands of homeless white men in my city. Maybe police interactions might be calmer for them, but what does it matter for somebody whose life is sliding downhill often by their own addictions? Yes, it does matter? If police interactions are calmer and you live longer, you have more chances to turn your life around. We as a society have more chances to help them. > This is why the focus on race seems like such a distraction to me. We could be helping the poor when we're still too busy discussing race and ethnicity. We should help the poor, and we should work to remove disparities between races and ethnicities. Why are those things opposed in your mind?
      - swagasaurus-rex 3y ago
        1) Many people of that race may be independently wealthy and do not need help. Grouping people by race is a bad measure of “need” 2) I haven’t heard realistic plans for actually helping people of a specific race. Helping poor people seems achievable, helping black people sounds presumptuous. 3) Race itself is a nebulous grouping with many edge cases. 4) You could easily find other ways to group people to locate “disadvantage”. Religion is an easy one, but affirmative action based of religion sounds quite discriminatory. 5) The focus on race is actually just racist. People’s difficulty of life is not measured by privilege but by actual experiences.
        Timon3 3y ago
        > 1) Many people of that race may be independently wealthy and do not need help. Grouping people by race is a bad measure of “need” But people are being treated badly due to their race. Why can't we use race as one criterium to decide who needs help? Why do we have to pretend that racism isn't a real social thing that affects peoples lives? > 2) I haven’t heard realistic plans for actually helping people of a specific race. Helping poor people seems achievable, helping black people sounds presumptuous. Well, if you define these plans as unrealistic you're not going to find realistic plans. But affirmative action for example is a very realistic plan - so much so that it is (or was) reality! > 3) Race itself is a nebulous grouping with many edge cases. Sure, but people are being treated badly due to those nebulous groupings with many edge cases. Why do we have to ignore that? > 4) You could easily find other ways to group people to locate “disadvantage”. Religion is an easy one, but affirmative action based of religion sounds quite discriminatory. Do you have statistics showing that a similarly statistically significant difference exists between different religions? > 5) The focus on race is actually just racist. People’s difficulty of life is not measured by privilege but by actual experiences. "The people who identify racism are the real racists!" isn't as good of an argument as you think. People have different experiences due to their race. Attempting to find ways to curb that isn't "racist", it's "normal social behavior".
Der_Einzige 3y ago
I can name several more 1. Communal cultures and stronger family structures. White Americans are insanely atomized and individualistic and that is a serious issue 2. Birthrates/Fertility 3. Far better food/cooking and eating 4. Cultural control, especially in music and to a lesser extent in sports. 5. In the case of certain immigrant groups, significantly higher family wealth than the average white american 6. In the case of some ethnic groups, significantly better physical prowess (it's a handful of tribes where many of the best runners come from) Obviously these are not all that significant compared to the disadvantages, but the idea that there are no other "unfair advantages" is just wrong.
- sotorfl 3y ago
  [dead]
- kacesensitive 3y ago
  1. Not a right 2. Not a right 3. Not a right 4. Not a right 5. Not a right 6. Holy shit not a right
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
hackeraccount 3y ago
Do you think being an African American hurt Barak Obama's chance to be the Democratic nominee for President? Or to be elected President? To answer my own question - it's complicated; it did hurt him in some regards but it helped him too. There were a lot of people in the primary and general election who wanted to know they weren't prejudiced and voted for him at least in part for that reason. This wasn't legal affirmative action. It was something else. I don't know if I'd call it an "unfair right" but for the right person in the right circumstance it can be an advantage. Does it out weigh all the disadvantages? Probably not.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
bombcar 3y ago
Higher successful suicide attempts I guess.