8 ms·

> I went to MIT ... I was valedictorian [presumably in high school] and had a perfect score on the SATs > I've always wondered if being Hispanic helped me get

> I went to MIT ... I was valedictorian [presumably in high school] and had a perfect score on the SATs > I've always wondered if being Hispanic helped me get into college or into jobs I've been on plenty of hiring committees for engineers and product owners. The fact that you have stellar academics and went to MIT stands out well more than your name or whatever your skin color is. Good for you for your accomplishments. AA had a purpose and place at some moment in time. I think that moment has passed.

falcolas 3y ago
> AA had a purpose and place at some moment in time. I think that moment has passed. Given how women and people with disabilities are still largely absent from these discussions and who still face massive challenges in breaking into some industries - let alone leadership roles in those industries - I think AA still had a place. I think it's a mistake to say that absent AA we have a pure meritocracy. Instead the discrimination is simply based on criteria that we (US voters) no longer have a say in.
- 1234letshaveatw 3y ago
  MIT's acceptance rate for women is more than double that of male applicants (11% v 5%)?
  - falcolas 3y ago
    Those NBs are really making some inroads into MIT then, aren't they?
- Maxion 3y ago
  > Given how women and people with disabilities are still largely absent from these discussions and who still face massive challenges in breaking into some industries - let alone leadership roles in those industries - I think AA still had a place. Throwing out a philosophical question, is the end goal that every industry, workplace, and residential are to have a completely equal proportion of every group label that can be created?
  - falcolas 3y ago
    > is the end goal that every industry, workplace, and residential are Well, if we follow the meritocratic ideology that everyone has the same opportunities available to them, it would be a natural conclusion. There is nothing that inherently causes a specific skin color or gender to have the ability to capitalize on an opportunity. But, not all things are equal, so IMO we need to give folks help in ensuring that the same opportunities are actually available to them. Provide help with ensuring that everyone has the same tools available to them to capitalize on those opportunities. Now then, WRT disabilities, this gap in opportunities and tools to capitalize on the opportunities is even greater. However, given that the one constant in life is that "you will become disabled, unless you die first", it makes no sense to leave those with disabilities behind.
    - EatingWithForks 3y ago
      Additionally WRT disabilities we actually need disabled people (i.e. pregnancy) in order for society to continue!
    - vxNsr 3y ago
      You’re saying you want to encourage 85 year olds with arthritis and glaucoma to keep working until they keel over? Why put them through that?
      - falcolas 3y ago
        No, I'm not saying that - and it's rather disingenuous to even infer that statement from my post. However, if an 85 year old with arthritis and glaucoma wants or needs to join the workforce, they should have the opportunity and the tools available to them. Many from the Baby Boomer generation are finding themselves in the "needs" category, for example.
    - parineum 3y ago
      > it would be a natural conclusion The counterfactual to that claim is nursing. Nursing is a very good job that has a relatively low barrier of entry yet the field is 88% female. The reason for that might be cultural but the reason is certainly self-selection, not discrimination. However, the difference may, in fact, be genetic (hormonal, more likely). Nursing is the mirror image of programming. If the gender compositions were reversed, the campaigns for STEM would, instead, be for healthcare. It may not be useful to look at outcomes to determine if opportunities are equal. It may be harder, but looking at opportunities to determine if opportunities are equal is really the only option.
- BlueTemplar 3y ago
  Sure, but we're talking here specifically a policy based on a racist concept, which goes on to normalize it, aren't we ?
  - falcolas 3y ago
    The policy was based on several factors, of which race was one. And helping some groups of people - yes, sometimes the grouping is determined by race - is not discriminating against everyone else. In other words, lifting Asians, Blacks, Hawaiians, and Eskimos is not being racist towards "Whites" as is asserted elsewhere in this discussion. I use quotes because white is a pretty new categorization. It used to be Germans, English, Italians, Irish, etc.
    - athenaRising 3y ago
      Elite university admissions is zero sum. Harvard doesn't add a seat for race blind admissions for every seat given to affirmative action admits. Making it easier for group A to gain admission makes it harder for group B to gain admission.
- brodouevencode 3y ago
  How are women absent from these discussions? And what industries are you referring to?
  - falcolas 3y ago
    The SC canned AA due to racism, even though AA also applied to gender and disability. So the value of AA for women (and men) and disabled people was completely disregarded. One potential industry to consider, especially considering the site we're on, is startup entrepreneurs - especially those who are able to get VC and Angel funding.
    - brodouevencode 3y ago
      My understanding is that they didn't can AA whole cloth - but that race cannot used as a consideration in admissions.
hospitalJail 3y ago
>The fact that you have stellar academics and went to MIT stands out well more than your name or whatever your skin color is. But his dad did use it to their advantage. OP then gets to grow up in an upper-class city with a great school district. Meanwhile some white or asian person gets bumped off, and instead of their kids growing up in that area, they grow up in a worse school district.
- hondo77 3y ago
  > Meanwhile some white or asian person gets bumped off, and instead of their kids growing up in that area, they grow up in a worse school district. Because if someone can't go to MIT, they're doomed to a life of abject poverty? Really?
  - hospitalJail 3y ago
    Depends on what they lost on. A premed, biology grad just lost out on a 500k/yr job by not getting into medical school. OPs dad got into medical school with this discrimination, so its not a leap to imagine OP would have grown up in a lower middle class area if not for discrimination.
    - hondo77 3y ago
      > A premed, biology grad just lost out on a 500k/yr job by not getting into medical school. Into that medical school. There are others.
      - hospitalJail 3y ago
        pedantic
      - parineum 3y ago
        If that were always true, AA wouldn't be needed. OPs data could have just gotten into a different school where they don't discriminate.
- 3y ago

falcolas 3y ago

> AA had a purpose and place at some moment in time. I think that moment has passed. Given how women and people with disabilities are still largely absent from these discussions and who still face massive challenges in breaking into some industries - let alone leadership roles in those industries - I think AA still had a place. I think it's a mistake to say that absent AA we have a pure meritocracy. Instead the discrimination is simply based on criteria that we (US voters) no longer have a say in.

1234letshaveatw 3y ago
MIT's acceptance rate for women is more than double that of male applicants (11% v 5%)?
- falcolas 3y ago
  Those NBs are really making some inroads into MIT then, aren't they?
Maxion 3y ago
> Given how women and people with disabilities are still largely absent from these discussions and who still face massive challenges in breaking into some industries - let alone leadership roles in those industries - I think AA still had a place. Throwing out a philosophical question, is the end goal that every industry, workplace, and residential are to have a completely equal proportion of every group label that can be created?
- falcolas 3y ago
  > is the end goal that every industry, workplace, and residential are Well, if we follow the meritocratic ideology that everyone has the same opportunities available to them, it would be a natural conclusion. There is nothing that inherently causes a specific skin color or gender to have the ability to capitalize on an opportunity. But, not all things are equal, so IMO we need to give folks help in ensuring that the same opportunities are actually available to them. Provide help with ensuring that everyone has the same tools available to them to capitalize on those opportunities. Now then, WRT disabilities, this gap in opportunities and tools to capitalize on the opportunities is even greater. However, given that the one constant in life is that "you will become disabled, unless you die first", it makes no sense to leave those with disabilities behind.
  - EatingWithForks 3y ago
    Additionally WRT disabilities we actually need disabled people (i.e. pregnancy) in order for society to continue!
  - vxNsr 3y ago
    You’re saying you want to encourage 85 year olds with arthritis and glaucoma to keep working until they keel over? Why put them through that?
    - falcolas 3y ago
      No, I'm not saying that - and it's rather disingenuous to even infer that statement from my post. However, if an 85 year old with arthritis and glaucoma wants or needs to join the workforce, they should have the opportunity and the tools available to them. Many from the Baby Boomer generation are finding themselves in the "needs" category, for example.
  - parineum 3y ago
    > it would be a natural conclusion The counterfactual to that claim is nursing. Nursing is a very good job that has a relatively low barrier of entry yet the field is 88% female. The reason for that might be cultural but the reason is certainly self-selection, not discrimination. However, the difference may, in fact, be genetic (hormonal, more likely). Nursing is the mirror image of programming. If the gender compositions were reversed, the campaigns for STEM would, instead, be for healthcare. It may not be useful to look at outcomes to determine if opportunities are equal. It may be harder, but looking at opportunities to determine if opportunities are equal is really the only option.
BlueTemplar 3y ago
Sure, but we're talking here specifically a policy based on a racist concept, which goes on to normalize it, aren't we ?
- falcolas 3y ago
  The policy was based on several factors, of which race was one. And helping some groups of people - yes, sometimes the grouping is determined by race - is not discriminating against everyone else. In other words, lifting Asians, Blacks, Hawaiians, and Eskimos is not being racist towards "Whites" as is asserted elsewhere in this discussion. I use quotes because white is a pretty new categorization. It used to be Germans, English, Italians, Irish, etc.
  - athenaRising 3y ago
    Elite university admissions is zero sum. Harvard doesn't add a seat for race blind admissions for every seat given to affirmative action admits. Making it easier for group A to gain admission makes it harder for group B to gain admission.
brodouevencode 3y ago
How are women absent from these discussions? And what industries are you referring to?
- falcolas 3y ago
  The SC canned AA due to racism, even though AA also applied to gender and disability. So the value of AA for women (and men) and disabled people was completely disregarded. One potential industry to consider, especially considering the site we're on, is startup entrepreneurs - especially those who are able to get VC and Angel funding.
  - brodouevencode 3y ago
    My understanding is that they didn't can AA whole cloth - but that race cannot used as a consideration in admissions.

hospitalJail 3y ago

>The fact that you have stellar academics and went to MIT stands out well more than your name or whatever your skin color is. But his dad did use it to their advantage. OP then gets to grow up in an upper-class city with a great school district. Meanwhile some white or asian person gets bumped off, and instead of their kids growing up in that area, they grow up in a worse school district.

hondo77 3y ago
> Meanwhile some white or asian person gets bumped off, and instead of their kids growing up in that area, they grow up in a worse school district. Because if someone can't go to MIT, they're doomed to a life of abject poverty? Really?
- hospitalJail 3y ago
  Depends on what they lost on. A premed, biology grad just lost out on a 500k/yr job by not getting into medical school. OPs dad got into medical school with this discrimination, so its not a leap to imagine OP would have grown up in a lower middle class area if not for discrimination.
  - hondo77 3y ago
    > A premed, biology grad just lost out on a 500k/yr job by not getting into medical school. Into that medical school. There are others.
    - hospitalJail 3y ago
      pedantic
    - parineum 3y ago
      If that were always true, AA wouldn't be needed. OPs data could have just gotten into a different school where they don't discriminate.
3y ago