5 ms·

Informed consent. I'd even say "rigorous, neutral, informed consent". And it's not only paying customers. Personally, I've always felt more angry about Chris

by throw7 3y ago

Informed consent. I'd even say "rigorous, neutral, informed consent". And it's not only paying customers. Personally, I've always felt more angry about Christa McAuliffe. I'm not sure I'd go all the way with banning the general public altogether, but I suppose I'm open to it still. Tip: hubris is a tell.

LorenPechtel 3y ago
The astronauts weren't informed with the problems with the boosters, either. The recovered hardware said the seals were frequently failing at ignition (as it goes from ambient to 1000 psi), just not to the point of destruction.
- mcpackieh 3y ago
  In fact the O-rings were never working as designed in the first place and NASA (but not necessarily those astronauts personally) knew it from the start. This was recognized early on in the program before the Shuttle ever flew. Those SRB joints were originally meant to have two O-rings as redundancy. But in testing they found that the first O-ring was being extruded, pushed past where it was meant to be into the joint and some hot gases were getting past it, meaning the second O-ring was no longer redundant. It was then determined that 'This is Fine'; instead of changing the design they changed the designation of the second o-ring to acknowledge that it was no longer redundant. They flew with that arrangement even though they already knew the primary O-rings didn't function correctly.
spiderice 3y ago
For those, like me, who had no idea what you’re talking about. From Wikipedia: > In 1984, President Ronald Reagan announced the Teacher in Space Project, and McAuliffe learned about NASA's efforts to find their first civilian, an educator, to fly into space. NASA wanted to find an "ordinary person," a gifted teacher who could communicate with students while in orbit. McAuliffe became one of more than 11,000 applicants. … > On January 28, 1986, McAuliffe boarded Challenger with the other six crew members of STS-51-L. Only 73 seconds into its flight at an altitude of 48,000 ft (14.630 km), the shuttle broke apart, resulting in the deaths of all seven crew members
- wkat4242 3y ago
  Yeah and the worst thing is they probably didn't even die in that 73rd second.
vkou 3y ago
> Christa McAuliffe Wasn't drilling in the actual dangers of climbing onto the Space Shuttle, and that she was taking on the same kind of risk as a test pilot would part of her training? If so, I don't see an issue. Going to space only looks safe in the movies and press releases, everyone actually working on it knows that it is an incredibly dangerous thing to do. If it wasn't, NASA really dropped the ball on the training part. (It also, obviously, really dropped the ball on the O-rings part, but the institutional and bureaucratic failures surrounding that are really well documented.)
- 1123581321 3y ago
  Perhaps if she was drilled on the risk of institutional failures. Even then, did she have the ability to comprehend them as the actual astronauts would have?

by throw7 3y ago

LorenPechtel 3y ago

The astronauts weren't informed with the problems with the boosters, either. The recovered hardware said the seals were frequently failing at ignition (as it goes from ambient to 1000 psi), just not to the point of destruction.

mcpackieh 3y ago
In fact the O-rings were never working as designed in the first place and NASA (but not necessarily those astronauts personally) knew it from the start. This was recognized early on in the program before the Shuttle ever flew. Those SRB joints were originally meant to have two O-rings as redundancy. But in testing they found that the first O-ring was being extruded, pushed past where it was meant to be into the joint and some hot gases were getting past it, meaning the second O-ring was no longer redundant. It was then determined that 'This is Fine'; instead of changing the design they changed the designation of the second o-ring to acknowledge that it was no longer redundant. They flew with that arrangement even though they already knew the primary O-rings didn't function correctly.

spiderice 3y ago

For those, like me, who had no idea what you’re talking about. From Wikipedia: > In 1984, President Ronald Reagan announced the Teacher in Space Project, and McAuliffe learned about NASA's efforts to find their first civilian, an educator, to fly into space. NASA wanted to find an "ordinary person," a gifted teacher who could communicate with students while in orbit. McAuliffe became one of more than 11,000 applicants. … > On January 28, 1986, McAuliffe boarded Challenger with the other six crew members of STS-51-L. Only 73 seconds into its flight at an altitude of 48,000 ft (14.630 km), the shuttle broke apart, resulting in the deaths of all seven crew members

wkat4242 3y ago
Yeah and the worst thing is they probably didn't even die in that 73rd second.

vkou 3y ago

> Christa McAuliffe Wasn't drilling in the actual dangers of climbing onto the Space Shuttle, and that she was taking on the same kind of risk as a test pilot would part of her training? If so, I don't see an issue. Going to space only looks safe in the movies and press releases, everyone actually working on it knows that it is an incredibly dangerous thing to do. If it wasn't, NASA really dropped the ball on the training part. (It also, obviously, really dropped the ball on the O-rings part, but the institutional and bureaucratic failures surrounding that are really well documented.)

1123581321 3y ago
Perhaps if she was drilled on the risk of institutional failures. Even then, did she have the ability to comprehend them as the actual astronauts would have?