5 ms·
There seems to be pretty clear consensus that the OceanGate CEO was impervious to good advice.
by mikece 3y ago
There seems to be pretty clear consensus that the OceanGate CEO was impervious to good advice.
- mc32 3y agoThe guy seemed to believe his own dogma. He was both sincere in his belief but also blinded by it. He was also a tenacious salesman —looks like he would lean on his (potential) customers pretty hard.
- jacquesm 3y agoThis combination is pretty common in start-up founders as well. Separating the ones who believe their own bs from the ones that have done their homework can sometimes be quite hard.
- Ajedi32 3y agoIt's interesting to imagine how different the narrative might be if he'd been equally convinced the sub was safe but just didn't happen to be on that particular mission by sheer luck.
- eldritch_4ier 3y agoYou could say the same about Elon Musk or Nokola Tesla or many others. Just sounds like pure survivorship bias to me. "This crazy innovator died so clearly future innovators should listen to the experts!".
- retrac 3y agoWell, Musk is an interesting example. I don't see him strapping himself to one of his rockets until he is darn sure it's not going to blow up.
- mikece 3y agoHe did send one of his cars into space, but that was an unmanned attempt...
- areoform 3y agoThat was a simulated payload for a test flight. SpaceX actually has an extensive testing, certification, and quality assurance process. A lot of it is driven by NASA and a lot of it may seem like "regulations," but NASA created those regulations because of the number of people who have died along the way.
- jacquesm 3y agoIf anything was proven by SpaceX in that context then it is that there are still many lessons to be learned. https://www.compositesworld.com/articles/spacex-announces-copvs-role-in-sept-rocket-explosion https://www.compositesworld.com/articles/spacex-announces-co...
- wkat4242 3y agoHe was never going to see that car again anyway, successful or not :)
- rootusrootus 3y agoThat's a good point, an analogy with Elon and FSD sort of works.
- mgarfias 3y agoNah, Nikola tesla was working with something unknown and strange at the time. There wasn’t a hundred years worth of engineering work behind the field. SpaceX’s “new thing” was recovering the first stage, which made subsequent launches cheaper. We have a LOT of engineering experience behind carbon fiber structures. Sometimes, you listen.
- sitkack 3y agoMusk wasn't the one to propose VTVL for SpaceX, he originally wanted parachutes.
- Goronmon 3y agoJust sounds like pure survivorship bias to me. I think you are using it in the exactly opposite way. "Crazy innovator succeeds and makes it rich! Future innovators don't need to listen to experts!" is the "survivor" in this situation. The number of "innovators" to failed/died/etc will be much higher than the ones who are successful.
- Chris2048 3y agoAFAIK Musk hasn't stepped inside one of his own test rockets?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- kllrnohj 3y ago> You could say the same about Elon Musk Elon Musk's successful companies were all him just taking credit for what the experts he bought produced. How is that in any way related to what OceanGate did? People doubted that Elon's companies could deliver on their goals, but they didn't really doubt the fundamental safety or engineering practices behind them. It's not like for the Model 3 Tesla just decided that suddenly cardboard was a great way to contain a battery pack. And SpaceX has absolutely been doing test flights "by the book" like the generations of rockets before them?
- smileysteve 3y ago> like the generations of rockets before them? But still risky; as clear from the recent rocket explosion; stage landing mishaps, space shuttles before them (the reason why SpaceX has a client in the US is because shuttles weren't reliable enough to continue) Hopefully SpaceX is listening to pressure hull tests and Nasa now pays attention to ambient temperatures and orings.
- dehrmann 3y agoHasn't Musk's Autopilot killed more people than this sub?
- mempko 3y agoMusk is not an inventor. It's more apt to compare Musk to Edison instead of Tesla. Of someone who paid others to invent. Though not a fair comparison to Edison since even Edison invented things on his own. Remember, Musk has an education in economics.
- bena 3y ago> "I suspect no deep diving sub did 50 MOD dives before non-essential crew were taken," Rush said. This right here. Just a casual dismissal of what an expert said because he didn't want to do that. An expert whose advice he explicitly sought out to make sure what happened wouldn't happen. Bucking the recommendations of those experienced in the activity you are performing because you feel you are special and your pluck is going to vindicate you makes for a good film or episode of television, but it's a poor way to conduct your business.
- mrguyorama 3y agoAnd yet it has been American business dogma for decades
- dmm 3y agoThis is why skin-in-the-game is so important. Now he won't be able to put anyone else in danger.
- mrguyorama 3y agoI consider a system that requires someone to die before something gets fixed to be a broken system.
- mcpackieh 3y agoRegulations are written in blood.
- throwaway290 3y agoWhat are the new regulations that are coming after this disaster?
- mcpackieh 3y agoDon't know yet, maybe none but it'll probably take a few years to find out.
- dehrmann 3y agoThe lesson here is that skin in the game isn't really enough. You almost have to be delusional to start a company, so seeing the CEO take on a risk means very little.
- MagicMoonlight 3y agoI wonder if any of the customers made that a condition of the trip. I wouldn’t trust a guy who won’t ride it with me.
- shakes_mcjunkie 3y agoIf you're having trust issues in an adventure, maybe you should skip it altogether.