4 ms·

Last-minute Government amendment seeks to muzzle DPC critics (Ireland)

77 points by donohoe 3y ago

Y_Y 3y ago
The Data Protection Commission sucks eggs and makes its decisions based on a Ouija board and comparing the weight of the stack of brown envelopes received from each of the relevant parties. This kind of nonsense is unconstitutional and reactionary. If the Irish government is serious about retaining its role as the gatekeeper in the transatlantic fibre then they'll have change course soon and increase the dismal credibility of the DPC.
- TheRealPomax 3y ago
  Sorry, how exactly is it unconstitutional? It sucks eggs, wholly agreed, but how is it against any of the fifty articles of the Irish constitution?
  - Y_Y 3y ago
    Do you disagree? Are you familiar with constitutional law? A lot of this was hashed out in the recent past with regard to the blasphemy position, see e.g. ICCL's take here: https://www.iccl.ie/human-rights/vote-yes-freedom-speech/ https://www.iccl.ie/human-rights/vote-yes-freedom-speech/ I include below part of Article 40.6.1°: which I think is in conflict with the proposed amendment. > The State guarantees liberty for the exercise of the following rights, subject to public order and morality: – i The right of the citizens to express freely their convictions and opinions. The education of public opinion being, however, a matter of such grave import to the common good, the State shall endeavour to ensure that organs of public opinion, such as the radio, the press, the cinema, while preserving their rightful liberty of expression, including criticism of Government policy, shall not be used to undermine public order or morality or the authority of the State. The publication or utterance of seditious or indecent matter is an offence which shall be punishable in accordance with law.
    - TheRealPomax 3y ago
      I'm not, which is why I asked. I'm not Irish and only have a cursory familiarity with its constitution. Thanks for the links!
jmclnx 3y ago
>The Government’s amendment will gag people from speaking about how the DPC handles their complaint, and from speaking about how Big Tech firms or public bodies are misusing their data. What is it with English Speaking countries and like the UK, US, Australia, now Ireland ? If I understand DCP, this is suppose to prevent someone in Ireland from complaining how their personal data is used ? Seems English Speaking Countries are thinking of the dumbest laws in relation to tech. Maybe I never hear about other countries tech laws due to where I live. Are laws like this and backdoor encryption laws being looked at in Germany, France, Nordic Countries ?
- raffraffraff 3y ago
  Ireland is currently bringing in an extremely draconian hate speech bill that doesn't clearly define what hate it, and makes it possible for an individual to make a citizen's arrest if they consider someone's speech hateful. Can you imagine the carnage at the next protest? It doesn't matter what it's about, either side can accuse the other of hate thought crimes, and then things will get physical as they try to arrest each other. Of course the ICCL (Irish Council for Civil Liberties) aren't kicking up a fuss about thought crime, because they've been pretty much ideologically captured.
  - cmcaleer 3y ago
    Which is hilarious because an extremely popular rebel song is basically calling British soldiers gay and making fun of them for being British. Are these songs going to be outlawed now? Who knows! Certainly not the lawmakers.
    - raffraffraff 3y ago
      Exactly this. But also, so many "right-on" people who presume that they're 100% right about everything, are sometimes the very people who say things like "punch nazis", without any sort of definition of who they're talking about. It's never actual Nazis, or even "nationalist socialists" of the common variety. Nope, if you dig into their comments they're simply people who are slightly to the right of them on some issues. So it's fine to call them nazis and incite violence. I say all of this as a fiscally left-of-centre non-flying vegetarian, just in case any of the right-on folks are reading this, assuming I'm a Nazi too.
kneebonian 3y ago
Something makes me think this amendment was introduced to torpedo the bill it's attached to rather than a actually limit criticism of the DPC, if I am wrong however Ireland should get back to it's roots to solve the problem in my opinion.
theonlybutlet 3y ago
They're on a roll. In the last week they've been called out by NGO's, legal professionals and others for three separate actions, and not in a good way. Contentious clauses in the Hate Speech bill, contentious clauses in the DPC law, and last but not least, a "closed door" high court order for a 12 month mobile communication retention order for all residents on national security grounds. May say I sound like crazy person but police state type of stuff at this fast rate.
- dekken_ 3y ago
  > 12 month mobile communication retention If you can't control what people think, you just scare them into not speaking. Sounds like state sponsored terrorism to me.

77 points by donohoe 3y ago

Y_Y 3y ago

The Data Protection Commission sucks eggs and makes its decisions based on a Ouija board and comparing the weight of the stack of brown envelopes received from each of the relevant parties. This kind of nonsense is unconstitutional and reactionary. If the Irish government is serious about retaining its role as the gatekeeper in the transatlantic fibre then they'll have change course soon and increase the dismal credibility of the DPC.

TheRealPomax 3y ago
Sorry, how exactly is it unconstitutional? It sucks eggs, wholly agreed, but how is it against any of the fifty articles of the Irish constitution?
- Y_Y 3y ago
  Do you disagree? Are you familiar with constitutional law? A lot of this was hashed out in the recent past with regard to the blasphemy position, see e.g. ICCL's take here: https://www.iccl.ie/human-rights/vote-yes-freedom-speech/ https://www.iccl.ie/human-rights/vote-yes-freedom-speech/ I include below part of Article 40.6.1°: which I think is in conflict with the proposed amendment. > The State guarantees liberty for the exercise of the following rights, subject to public order and morality: – i The right of the citizens to express freely their convictions and opinions. The education of public opinion being, however, a matter of such grave import to the common good, the State shall endeavour to ensure that organs of public opinion, such as the radio, the press, the cinema, while preserving their rightful liberty of expression, including criticism of Government policy, shall not be used to undermine public order or morality or the authority of the State. The publication or utterance of seditious or indecent matter is an offence which shall be punishable in accordance with law.
  - TheRealPomax 3y ago
    I'm not, which is why I asked. I'm not Irish and only have a cursory familiarity with its constitution. Thanks for the links!

jmclnx 3y ago

>The Government’s amendment will gag people from speaking about how the DPC handles their complaint, and from speaking about how Big Tech firms or public bodies are misusing their data. What is it with English Speaking countries and like the UK, US, Australia, now Ireland ? If I understand DCP, this is suppose to prevent someone in Ireland from complaining how their personal data is used ? Seems English Speaking Countries are thinking of the dumbest laws in relation to tech. Maybe I never hear about other countries tech laws due to where I live. Are laws like this and backdoor encryption laws being looked at in Germany, France, Nordic Countries ?

raffraffraff 3y ago
Ireland is currently bringing in an extremely draconian hate speech bill that doesn't clearly define what hate it, and makes it possible for an individual to make a citizen's arrest if they consider someone's speech hateful. Can you imagine the carnage at the next protest? It doesn't matter what it's about, either side can accuse the other of hate thought crimes, and then things will get physical as they try to arrest each other. Of course the ICCL (Irish Council for Civil Liberties) aren't kicking up a fuss about thought crime, because they've been pretty much ideologically captured.
- cmcaleer 3y ago
  Which is hilarious because an extremely popular rebel song is basically calling British soldiers gay and making fun of them for being British. Are these songs going to be outlawed now? Who knows! Certainly not the lawmakers.
  - raffraffraff 3y ago
    Exactly this. But also, so many "right-on" people who presume that they're 100% right about everything, are sometimes the very people who say things like "punch nazis", without any sort of definition of who they're talking about. It's never actual Nazis, or even "nationalist socialists" of the common variety. Nope, if you dig into their comments they're simply people who are slightly to the right of them on some issues. So it's fine to call them nazis and incite violence. I say all of this as a fiscally left-of-centre non-flying vegetarian, just in case any of the right-on folks are reading this, assuming I'm a Nazi too.

kneebonian 3y ago

Something makes me think this amendment was introduced to torpedo the bill it's attached to rather than a actually limit criticism of the DPC, if I am wrong however Ireland should get back to it's roots to solve the problem in my opinion.

theonlybutlet 3y ago

They're on a roll. In the last week they've been called out by NGO's, legal professionals and others for three separate actions, and not in a good way. Contentious clauses in the Hate Speech bill, contentious clauses in the DPC law, and last but not least, a "closed door" high court order for a 12 month mobile communication retention order for all residents on national security grounds. May say I sound like crazy person but police state type of stuff at this fast rate.

dekken_ 3y ago
> 12 month mobile communication retention If you can't control what people think, you just scare them into not speaking. Sounds like state sponsored terrorism to me.