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You're right about semis. The most cost effective thing for keeping the roads better is weigh stations open all the time. However, EVs cause around 2x more da
by tomohawk 3y ago
You're right about semis. The most cost effective thing for keeping the roads better is weigh stations open all the time.
However, EVs cause around 2x more damage to roads than non EVs.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/26/pothole-electric-cars-damage-roads-double-petrol-telegraph/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/26/pothole-electric...
Wait til the semi EVs hit the road!
EVs also have significantly higher particulate emissions due to increased tire wear.
- Gordonjcp 3y agoYou know you linked to a fictional news site, right?
- danielheath 3y agoTerrible source, yes, but it happens to be at least roughly on point in this instance; if my dim recall of the relevant engineering is correct, road damage grows quadratically to the pressure exerted on the road by tires, and EVs are typically nearly twice as heavy as ICE vehicles.
- mschuster91 3y ago> and EVs are typically nearly twice as heavy as ICE vehicles. A 3-series BMW clocks in at 1700-2255 kg. A comparable Tesla Model Y clocks in at 1778-2003 kg (from empty to fully loaded).
- danielheath 3y ago2255kg is the maximum load, and 1700kg is not at all an ordinary car weight; hatchbacks are often closer to 650 and my sedan is barely over 1000. You could argue that those aren’t luxury vehicles, but downmarket EVs need to be heavy too, because batteries do not match the energy density of petrol. Myself, I’m replacing nearly every car trip with biking where feasible (young kids make that challenging, admittedly, but the car doesn’t see a ton of use these days).
- Chaosvex 3y agoI think your figures are off. What hatchback only weighs 600kg? What sedan only weighs 1000kg?
- Gordonjcp 3y agoKei cars? The Citroën AX was about 700kg.
- danielheath 3y agoHrm, digging deeper and you're right, I'm a little light - hatchbacks are closer to 1000 and the commodore sedan starts at 1370.
- dontlaugh 3y agoThose are both massive cars. Under a ton is more typical and reasonable.
- mschuster91 3y agoHere in Germany, a 3-series BMW is the standard middle class sedan. Certainly less weight than most SUVs.
- vladvasiliu 3y agoUnder a ton?! Do you mean under 1000 kg? How do you figure? The Dacia Sandero, one of the smallest cars I can think of here in France, that's also supposed to be cheap so doesn't have a lot of... anything, has a curb weight of 1,025–1,204 kg (2,260–2,654 lb) according to wikipedia [0]. The previous generation Renault Clio, which is a small city car, weighed around 1000 kg, too (980 at the lowest). [1]. Wikipedia doesn't have data for the current generation, which is somewhat bigger physically. --- [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dacia_Sandero https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dacia_Sandero [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_Clio#Fourth_generation_(BH/KH;_2012) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_Clio#Fourth_generation...
- dontlaugh 3y agoOur country’s Sandero is actually a bit big for the B segment. The Polo, Corsa and Fiesta are all a bit smaller and lighter, at least the previous generation. You’re right about the current generation, though. Not that many on the streets, but they generally are a bit over a ton. At least the popular A segment cars like the Aygo, Up or 500 still tend to be under a ton. Sadly even heavier cars are becoming more popular, so in the future a ton will be far from the median.
- itsoktocry 3y ago>A 3-series BMW clocks in at 1700-2255 kg. A comparable Tesla Model Y clocks in at 1778-2003 kg (from empty to fully loaded). A brand new 330i is 3500lbs. A Model Y is 4500lbs. That's a 28% increase in weight for a similar size car. A Honda Civic is 3100lbs in full trim. A 530i is 3800lbs. My VW SUV is only 3850lbs. That means more tire wear and more road wear. Are we at the point where EV fans are going to deny that EVs are far heavier?
- relativ575 3y ago> A brand new 330i is 3500lbs. A Model Y is 4500lbs. That's a 28% increase in weight for a similar size car. GP said "and EVs are typically nearly twice as heavy as ICE vehicles" Also I'm sure you know that 330i is a sedan. Model Y is a SUV. They are not similar. A BMW similar to Model Y would be X3. it's weight is 4150lbs. Did you know that BMW series 7 is around 4720lbs, compared to 4790lbs of a model S? EV is heavier than ICE. That's never been a question. EV is gentler to the environment despite the weight.
- nonethewiser 3y agoThey are clearly heavier which causes more wear and tear. The estimation that they are nearly twice as heavy is inaccurate. Do you agree with these statements?
- dacohenii 3y agoBelieve it or not, it's proportional to the fourth power (!) of the axle load: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_power_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_power_law
- Gordonjcp 3y agoYeah, that doesn't work, though. It makes no sense mathematically and can be shown by a simple experiment to break down in practice.
- danielheath 3y agoIs “nah I don’t think so” really a powerful counterargument to a page with a list of academic and government citations offering support of its claims?
- Gordonjcp 3y agoWell, it's very very simple. Does a sharp pointy thing poke a hole in a surface more easily or less easily than a big flat thing? The "list of academic and government citations" is all just finger-in-the-air unscientific "we think it works like this because it fits our primary school child view of the world".
- loeg 3y agoEVs are not double the weight of comparable ICE vehicles. Yes, they are heavier -- but not 100% heavier.