4 ms·

I was fairly happy with my fitbit charge 4, but now it's actually useless as a watch most of the time because they pushed a firmware update that reduces the max

I was fairly happy with my fitbit charge 4, but now it's actually useless as a watch most of the time because they pushed a firmware update that reduces the max screen brightness. So now it's impossible to read the screen outside, even on the max settings. God I hate closed down hardware. I don't actually care if the battery life gets shorter because I take the damn thing off every day to shower anyway, and the time it stays off is more than enough to charge it every day if I had to. But what really annoys me is that the choice is just made for me. I'm never buying a device with closed firmware, unreplaceable batteries, etc, ever again. It's a complete waste of money in terms of durability and I'm sick of not really owning the devices I pay out the nose for and that fact making them strictly less capable.

xnorswap 3y ago
This is why I loved my Pebble. The LCD screen meant it was readable in any light and also had fantastic battery life.
- 0xEF 3y ago
  I still only use Pebble watches. You can pick them up on eBay for $30 USD, and the Rebble.io community helps keep them alive. I have yet to see another smartwatch do what they did, which is a bit baffling to me. Watchy came close, being fully programmable with an e-ink screen, but the bulk of the housing was atrocious.
  - pbronez 3y ago
    Oh man I had no idea there was a project keeping pebbles alive. The rebble project looks great. Very impressed by the documentation on their site.
  - b112 3y ago
    which is a bit baffling to me. I'm guessing pebble watches didn't geolocate you, and report your position, and probably didn't record everything said around you then "anonymize" it, so it was likely deemed useless by VCs, and thus died? No wonder there's no replacement! To all VCs, my startup sells geolocated tools, and also orders screws and nails, automatically, by selling special nails, with an rfid tag build in! (next day? 1B buyout)
    - brookst 3y ago
      Consumers decide product success, not VCs. If there is demand, the product will succeed. See: all the companies that came from bootstrapped startups. If there is no demand, no amount of VC money will make a successful company. See: Magic Leap.
      - pydry 3y ago
        Consumers will routinely go for a smartwatch that is $25 cheaper that is riddled with spyware. There are two schools of thought over this: they just don't care so it's fine or the wool has been pulled over their eyes. The backlash from industry against laws that are largely just intended to inform consumers and keep them in the loop (like GDPR) kind of hints that it's not the former. Consumers are especially bad at pricing risk. Just because they made a decision doesn't mean that they walked into those risks with open eyes.
      - hnbad 3y ago
        Not really. VCs want growth, consumers want stability. A company can be profitable and stable and still die because VCs want ROI and hence growth and the growth potential of the existing market has been depleted. Arguably, Pebble was an example of this. They initially presented the smartwatch as a productivity tool and many users loved it. But the productivity market was much smaller than the fitness market so they kept adding fitness related features. This eventually enabled them to be bought out by Fitbit (for a good exit) who saw no further use in the brand and killed it. Another example is planned obsolescence: there's very little money in producing a product that has few returning customers because it continues to work fine for decades. Saying "consumers" or "demand" or "your wallet" implies a level of agency and democratic control that isn't really there in practice. Consumers don't decide product success, profit and growth does. And consumers certainly don't get to make any direct decisions, they just get to pick through what has already been preselected for them.
        BloodyIron 3y ago
        And what about companies like 3M who don't inherently focus on MVP and instead significantly invest in products that are targetted for humans? Not favouring growth at all costs. Yes, a lot of "new"/"modern" companies that have shiny balance sheets with the colour black used, and not red, follow as you attribe. But there are plenty whom do not.
  - pradn 3y ago
    Pebble Time watches have spiked to $100-150, unfortunately. I really wanted one to hack around with. Their simplicity appeals to me. But they're no longer cheap. I think the other models are similar.
- LeifCarrotson 3y ago
  Transflective Memory-In-Pixel LCD screen. The Fitbit has a backlit LCD, like a TV, which sucks in daylight. You can still get transflective displays on Garmin fitness/hiking watches. They're great, because they allow for always-on display with more than a month of battery life. Some of their new consumer products are OLED that wake up when you turn your wrist, but the core audience really likes the transflective displays.
  - trd716 3y ago
    Moto 360 Sport had this kind of display (transflective LCD) and I kept it working with battery replacements for years. Finally moved on to a GW4C and I miss the display all the time, it was perfect to glance at either day or night
- m-p-3 3y ago
  I currently have a Banglejs.2 and although the UI doesn't feel as snappy, it's IMO a decent enough alternative, although I miss the buttons from my Pebble. I do might the Timeline UI, it still is in my opinion the pinnacle of what a smartwatch OS should aim for. It focused to keep the core function of a watch (time and time-related events) at the top.
- xela79 3y ago
  the OG Pebble Steel was in a class apart, really loved that Watch. Unfortunately it had issues with connection cable and had 2 units that broke over time. My favorite long battery smartwatch owned.
- dreamcompiler 3y ago
  And you could program the damn thing yourself.
markhahn 3y ago
I have a charge 5 and it's fine - in particular, it would suit the OP. I also would love to tinker with the fw and be able to service parts. But providing each of those features is a tradeoff. The fw is primarily a cultural issue, but to some extent also a support one. I think that's where I would push harder - rather than the hw aspect. Replaceable batteries are either quite specific or incur a substantial space penalty (are any widely-available button cells rechargable?)
- mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
  Definitely agree that HW is a tougher ask. Though I mostly see it as an engineering problem that hasn't been solved mainly because no one is really trying. And apparently rechargable button cells do exist based on a quick google search, though i have no idea how widely available they are. But again, it's just an engineering problem that can be solved should the right people put their minds to it. I can't really design hardware, but I did write the firmware for a two man startup at one point, designing custom electronics for people with too much money. We always made the source available to the customer and made our stuff USB or JTAG programmable. Not that any of them actually cared, but we did!

xnorswap 3y ago

This is why I loved my Pebble. The LCD screen meant it was readable in any light and also had fantastic battery life.

0xEF 3y ago
I still only use Pebble watches. You can pick them up on eBay for $30 USD, and the Rebble.io community helps keep them alive. I have yet to see another smartwatch do what they did, which is a bit baffling to me. Watchy came close, being fully programmable with an e-ink screen, but the bulk of the housing was atrocious.
- pbronez 3y ago
  Oh man I had no idea there was a project keeping pebbles alive. The rebble project looks great. Very impressed by the documentation on their site.
- b112 3y ago
  which is a bit baffling to me. I'm guessing pebble watches didn't geolocate you, and report your position, and probably didn't record everything said around you then "anonymize" it, so it was likely deemed useless by VCs, and thus died? No wonder there's no replacement! To all VCs, my startup sells geolocated tools, and also orders screws and nails, automatically, by selling special nails, with an rfid tag build in! (next day? 1B buyout)
  - brookst 3y ago
    Consumers decide product success, not VCs. If there is demand, the product will succeed. See: all the companies that came from bootstrapped startups. If there is no demand, no amount of VC money will make a successful company. See: Magic Leap.
    - pydry 3y ago
      Consumers will routinely go for a smartwatch that is $25 cheaper that is riddled with spyware. There are two schools of thought over this: they just don't care so it's fine or the wool has been pulled over their eyes. The backlash from industry against laws that are largely just intended to inform consumers and keep them in the loop (like GDPR) kind of hints that it's not the former. Consumers are especially bad at pricing risk. Just because they made a decision doesn't mean that they walked into those risks with open eyes.
    - hnbad 3y ago
      Not really. VCs want growth, consumers want stability. A company can be profitable and stable and still die because VCs want ROI and hence growth and the growth potential of the existing market has been depleted. Arguably, Pebble was an example of this. They initially presented the smartwatch as a productivity tool and many users loved it. But the productivity market was much smaller than the fitness market so they kept adding fitness related features. This eventually enabled them to be bought out by Fitbit (for a good exit) who saw no further use in the brand and killed it. Another example is planned obsolescence: there's very little money in producing a product that has few returning customers because it continues to work fine for decades. Saying "consumers" or "demand" or "your wallet" implies a level of agency and democratic control that isn't really there in practice. Consumers don't decide product success, profit and growth does. And consumers certainly don't get to make any direct decisions, they just get to pick through what has already been preselected for them.
      - BloodyIron 3y ago
        And what about companies like 3M who don't inherently focus on MVP and instead significantly invest in products that are targetted for humans? Not favouring growth at all costs. Yes, a lot of "new"/"modern" companies that have shiny balance sheets with the colour black used, and not red, follow as you attribe. But there are plenty whom do not.
- pradn 3y ago
  Pebble Time watches have spiked to $100-150, unfortunately. I really wanted one to hack around with. Their simplicity appeals to me. But they're no longer cheap. I think the other models are similar.
LeifCarrotson 3y ago
Transflective Memory-In-Pixel LCD screen. The Fitbit has a backlit LCD, like a TV, which sucks in daylight. You can still get transflective displays on Garmin fitness/hiking watches. They're great, because they allow for always-on display with more than a month of battery life. Some of their new consumer products are OLED that wake up when you turn your wrist, but the core audience really likes the transflective displays.
- trd716 3y ago
  Moto 360 Sport had this kind of display (transflective LCD) and I kept it working with battery replacements for years. Finally moved on to a GW4C and I miss the display all the time, it was perfect to glance at either day or night
m-p-3 3y ago
I currently have a Banglejs.2 and although the UI doesn't feel as snappy, it's IMO a decent enough alternative, although I miss the buttons from my Pebble. I do might the Timeline UI, it still is in my opinion the pinnacle of what a smartwatch OS should aim for. It focused to keep the core function of a watch (time and time-related events) at the top.
xela79 3y ago
the OG Pebble Steel was in a class apart, really loved that Watch. Unfortunately it had issues with connection cable and had 2 units that broke over time. My favorite long battery smartwatch owned.
dreamcompiler 3y ago
And you could program the damn thing yourself.

markhahn 3y ago

I have a charge 5 and it's fine - in particular, it would suit the OP. I also would love to tinker with the fw and be able to service parts. But providing each of those features is a tradeoff. The fw is primarily a cultural issue, but to some extent also a support one. I think that's where I would push harder - rather than the hw aspect. Replaceable batteries are either quite specific or incur a substantial space penalty (are any widely-available button cells rechargable?)

mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
Definitely agree that HW is a tougher ask. Though I mostly see it as an engineering problem that hasn't been solved mainly because no one is really trying. And apparently rechargable button cells do exist based on a quick google search, though i have no idea how widely available they are. But again, it's just an engineering problem that can be solved should the right people put their minds to it. I can't really design hardware, but I did write the firmware for a two man startup at one point, designing custom electronics for people with too much money. We always made the source available to the customer and made our stuff USB or JTAG programmable. Not that any of them actually cared, but we did!