5 ms·

This toll is outrageous and disgusting…

Analemma_ 3y ago
I don't understand this mindset. The only way a congestion charge can possibly actually work is if it's high enough to discourage people from making car trips into the city. If it's low enough that people can ignore it, then it's useless for its purpose.
- EA-3167 3y ago
  That also means that it entirely favors people with the sort of disposable income that such a charge is meaningless, making it pretty regressive. I'm not saying it's wrong, but I can understand why some people feel that it's unfair.
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    Could you make road tolls progressive using a lottery instead? You either get access for the time window you bid for or you don't. Alternatively, you force cars out by doing the 'ol Barcelona superblocks: https://www.google.com/search?q=barcelona+superblocks https://www.google.com/search?q=barcelona+superblocks
  - PaulHoule 3y ago
    You can take transit if you don’t want to pay the toll. If I go to NYC on my own I take the bus from Ithaca, if I have a party of 3 or more I drive across the GWB and Bronx and stay somewhere near the east side of the Queensbridge because it is cheaper to park, stay in a hotel, etc. The toll is just one more reason to keep doing what I am doing.
  - Daishiman 3y ago
    People from all social strata live and work in Manhattan. Most people visiting from New Jersey can find parking and take the Path for the same price or less than what parking costs.
- the_optimist 3y ago
  Sure, introduce a Pigovian tax then enhance public transit / trains. But what will happen in practice is this money will go into general coffers, be squandered on graft, “consulting,” and intentionally non-viable pet projects, then we all are poorer.
  - mikeyouse 3y ago
    Your certainty around "what will happen in practice" is completely misguided. The program is being run by the MTA and the tolls collected are sequestered for MTA capital projects and will be used solely to invest in public transit. The program you're decrying and the one you claim to support are identical. > Congestion pricing refers to the use of electronic tolling to charge vehicles for entering certain areas during peak commuting hours, ideally resulting in reduced traffic congestion and increased revenue for transit-oriented projects. > Revenue generated from the program will be bonded against and placed in a designated MTA “lockbox” to fund capital improvements to the city’s ailing mass transit system. > The program is expected to generate $1 billion annually, which will be used to secure $15 billion in bonds for repairs and improvements to the public transportation system. > The electronic tolling system will operate similarly to the cashless tolling system on the Verrazzano-Narrows Bridge, where overhead sensors read drivers’ E-ZPass tags and administer the fee directly to their account.
  - supertrope 3y ago
    The explicit purpose of the congestion charge is to fund transit. I do share your skepticism as NY/NJ leaders have previously laundered tolls into the general budget making them a de facto tax.
- anony23 3y ago
  This toll will have 0 impact on congestion and just extract money from folks that are already over taxed. It's a slap in the face to working class NYers.
  - supertrope 3y ago
    A 5 cent plastic grocery bag fee significantly changes behavior. People are sensitive to explicit costs.
  - Symbiote 3y ago
    Evidence from London strongly suggests congestion and traffic will decrease.
GoRudy 3y ago
The congestion downtown is outrageous. The honking from cars sitting in stopped traffic is noise pollution to a degree most people will never experience. Broome street from 3pm until 7pm is a nightmare. Endless honking and road rage. It’s a detriment to the neighborhood and the traffic cops are constantly getting verbally berated for traffic that is not their fault they’re just trying to keep the cross streets open. I would love to see this price increased further + actual fines levied for mindless honking in stopped traffic.
- shortcake27 3y ago
  As a tourist in NYC a few years ago, the honking was fascinating. Usually, you honk to get someone’s attention. Not in NYC. Thousands of people honking for literally no reason. Why does this affliction affect so many people? I wonder if by honking, people are subconsciously creating an association between honking and moving even though there’s no relationship?
  - PaulHoule 3y ago
    Try China or India where cars come with much longer lasting horns than they do in the U.S. because people honk much more.
    - olyjohn 3y ago
      I'm gonna call BS on this one.
  - supertrope 3y ago
    The crosswalk buttons don't do anything but some people press them.

I don't understand this mindset. The only way a congestion charge can possibly actually work is if it's high enough to discourage people from making car trips into the city. If it's low enough that people can ignore it, then it's useless for its purpose.

EA-3167 3y ago
That also means that it entirely favors people with the sort of disposable income that such a charge is meaningless, making it pretty regressive. I'm not saying it's wrong, but I can understand why some people feel that it's unfair.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  Could you make road tolls progressive using a lottery instead? You either get access for the time window you bid for or you don't. Alternatively, you force cars out by doing the 'ol Barcelona superblocks: https://www.google.com/search?q=barcelona+superblocks https://www.google.com/search?q=barcelona+superblocks
- PaulHoule 3y ago
  You can take transit if you don’t want to pay the toll. If I go to NYC on my own I take the bus from Ithaca, if I have a party of 3 or more I drive across the GWB and Bronx and stay somewhere near the east side of the Queensbridge because it is cheaper to park, stay in a hotel, etc. The toll is just one more reason to keep doing what I am doing.
- Daishiman 3y ago
  People from all social strata live and work in Manhattan. Most people visiting from New Jersey can find parking and take the Path for the same price or less than what parking costs.
the_optimist 3y ago
Sure, introduce a Pigovian tax then enhance public transit / trains. But what will happen in practice is this money will go into general coffers, be squandered on graft, “consulting,” and intentionally non-viable pet projects, then we all are poorer.
- mikeyouse 3y ago
  Your certainty around "what will happen in practice" is completely misguided. The program is being run by the MTA and the tolls collected are sequestered for MTA capital projects and will be used solely to invest in public transit. The program you're decrying and the one you claim to support are identical. > Congestion pricing refers to the use of electronic tolling to charge vehicles for entering certain areas during peak commuting hours, ideally resulting in reduced traffic congestion and increased revenue for transit-oriented projects. > Revenue generated from the program will be bonded against and placed in a designated MTA “lockbox” to fund capital improvements to the city’s ailing mass transit system. > The program is expected to generate $1 billion annually, which will be used to secure $15 billion in bonds for repairs and improvements to the public transportation system. > The electronic tolling system will operate similarly to the cashless tolling system on the Verrazzano-Narrows Bridge, where overhead sensors read drivers’ E-ZPass tags and administer the fee directly to their account.
- supertrope 3y ago
  The explicit purpose of the congestion charge is to fund transit. I do share your skepticism as NY/NJ leaders have previously laundered tolls into the general budget making them a de facto tax.
anony23 3y ago
This toll will have 0 impact on congestion and just extract money from folks that are already over taxed. It's a slap in the face to working class NYers.
- supertrope 3y ago
  A 5 cent plastic grocery bag fee significantly changes behavior. People are sensitive to explicit costs.
- Symbiote 3y ago
  Evidence from London strongly suggests congestion and traffic will decrease.

GoRudy 3y ago

The congestion downtown is outrageous. The honking from cars sitting in stopped traffic is noise pollution to a degree most people will never experience. Broome street from 3pm until 7pm is a nightmare. Endless honking and road rage. It’s a detriment to the neighborhood and the traffic cops are constantly getting verbally berated for traffic that is not their fault they’re just trying to keep the cross streets open. I would love to see this price increased further + actual fines levied for mindless honking in stopped traffic.

shortcake27 3y ago
As a tourist in NYC a few years ago, the honking was fascinating. Usually, you honk to get someone’s attention. Not in NYC. Thousands of people honking for literally no reason. Why does this affliction affect so many people? I wonder if by honking, people are subconsciously creating an association between honking and moving even though there’s no relationship?
- PaulHoule 3y ago
  Try China or India where cars come with much longer lasting horns than they do in the U.S. because people honk much more.
  - olyjohn 3y ago
    I'm gonna call BS on this one.
- supertrope 3y ago
  The crosswalk buttons don't do anything but some people press them.