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> The Last of Us Part II cost $220 million with around 200 employees: That just seems like crazy high figure. One of the things that is kind annoying me with g

> The Last of Us Part II cost $220 million with around 200 employees: That just seems like crazy high figure. One of the things that is kind annoying me with games these days is how long it takes them to build the next one. Edler Scrolls is about 5-6 years away and that probably means Fallout is 10 years away. Sure we'll have Starfield but decades between games in a series is just bonkers.

ender341341 3y ago
Elder scrolls has it's MMO at least (which as someone who hates MMOs doesn't mean much) but agreed, it's insane that we went from 4 years between morrowind/oblivion, then 5 for skyrim to likely 15 years for another mainline game. Especially since it feels like morrowind to oblivion probably had a bigger change in gameplay style than I'd expect from jumping from skyrim to the next one.
- CapricornNoble 3y ago
  Maybe I'm an outlier because I play tons of games that are 10+ years old, but... Skyrim w/mods is totally viable to me as an open-world RPG for years to come. I skipped Fallout 4, but if I had a refreshed (optimized, less-buggy, Linux-friendly) version of Fallout: New Vegas I wouldn't be concerned about getting another FO entry anytime soon either. Hugely excited for Starfield though, it scratches an itch I've had for years: blending Mass Effect, Deus Ex, Fallout, and Elder Scrolls.
  - that_guy_iain 3y ago
    >Maybe I'm an outlier because I play tons of games that are 10+ years old, but... To be fair, everyone is playing 10+ years old games. GTA, Skyrim, Fallout, etc. The next versions haven't been released and are still all years away. > Hugely excited for Starfield though I pre-ordered it which is huge for me since normally I just wait years until the price drops. I just picked up Cyberpunk at the weekend which should show how long I am willing to wait before getting a AAA game.
    - CapricornNoble 3y ago
      I'm contemplating a Starfield pre-order as well. Last game I pre-ordered was perhaps Hearts of Iron 4. I STILL haven't bought Cyberpunk 2077; until a game hits 75% off on my Steam Wishlist it doesn't exist. If that means I don't play it until 5 years after its release...that's ok.
sebzim4500 3y ago
I don't understand how this can possibly be true. Game devs make nothing, how did it cost more than a million dollars per (peak) employee working on the game? Are there some significant costs other than employee salaries?
- Drakim 3y ago
  Maybe they aren't counting contractors as employees?
- gizmo385 3y ago
  Even assuming those costs were _only_ employees and don't include licensing costs, contract costs for major voice talent, etc then you're still looking at about 1,000,000 per employee over the course of the games development. If a game takes 5-6 years for development, then you're looking about 200k average total employee cost per year, which once you factor in things like healthcare and other expenses an employer might have to pay doesn't seem too wild to me?
- mehlmao 3y ago
  My understanding is that a lot of work on TLOU2 was performed by contractors.
- deelowe 3y ago
  Fully loaded cost will be could to 2x salary. Spread over the entire game's development, this would come out to a couple hundred k per employee. This isn't insane.
- FinnKuhn 3y ago
  Probably stuff like offices, hardware, software licences, marketing, server costs and more together with the fact that they worked on it for 5 years (that would mean only 200k per employee) and had all those other costs for those years as well
  - autoexec 3y ago
    I'm guessing there's some hollywood accounting going on too
theandrewbailey 3y ago
$220 million is not unheard of, particularly for a game that's intended to sell consoles. GTA 5 had a similarly sized budget. https://www.dualshockers.com/biggest-video-game-budgets/ https://www.dualshockers.com/biggest-video-game-budgets/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_video_games_to_develop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_video_g... As for waiting years between installments, we have plenty of great games to play through in the meantime. "We will release it when it's ready" is a mentality that has sadly been forgotten over the past several years.
- that_guy_iain 3y ago
  > As for waiting years between installments, we have plenty of great games to play through in the meantime. "We will release it when it's ready" is a mentality that has sadly been forgotten over the past several years. It's very questionable if we do have plenty of great games. And there is a difference between rushing a release and spending 15 years between releases. Putting it as waiting years is presenting it in a false light, it's waiting decades. It's very possible the time between Skyrim and the next installment is 20-years. GTA5 was 10-years ago and has been on 3 different generations of consoles. It could very well be that GTA6 doesn't even get release on PS4 because it'll take so long.
onion2k 3y ago
I don't see it any different to films in a franchise or novels by an author. They can work at whatever pace they want to. We aren't entitled to their efforts and we have no claim over how long they choose to spend making something. I'm just glad they do.
- that_guy_iain 3y ago
  > We aren't entitled to their efforts and we have no claim over how long they choose to spend making something. I think as paying consumers who they keep selling to there is a level of entitlement. The whole "they don't owe us anything" doesn't really work, they kinda owe us their success. Especially when they re-release the same game multiple times instead of a new one.
add-sub-mul-div 3y ago
More frustrating, I don't think those games necessarily need that much time, it's also Bethesda spacing out the main titles of their major franchises evenly so they don't cannibalize each other. Every time Starfield got delayed, everything after it was delayed too.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
throwawaymobule 3y ago
> probably means Fallout is 10 years away. unless Microsoft gets obsidian to make 'New Vegas 2' on the fallout 4 engine.
codingcodingboy 3y ago
The marketing cost is not included, the budget for the average AAA game is probably very close to half a billion.

ender341341 3y ago

Elder scrolls has it's MMO at least (which as someone who hates MMOs doesn't mean much) but agreed, it's insane that we went from 4 years between morrowind/oblivion, then 5 for skyrim to likely 15 years for another mainline game. Especially since it feels like morrowind to oblivion probably had a bigger change in gameplay style than I'd expect from jumping from skyrim to the next one.

CapricornNoble 3y ago
Maybe I'm an outlier because I play tons of games that are 10+ years old, but... Skyrim w/mods is totally viable to me as an open-world RPG for years to come. I skipped Fallout 4, but if I had a refreshed (optimized, less-buggy, Linux-friendly) version of Fallout: New Vegas I wouldn't be concerned about getting another FO entry anytime soon either. Hugely excited for Starfield though, it scratches an itch I've had for years: blending Mass Effect, Deus Ex, Fallout, and Elder Scrolls.
- that_guy_iain 3y ago
  >Maybe I'm an outlier because I play tons of games that are 10+ years old, but... To be fair, everyone is playing 10+ years old games. GTA, Skyrim, Fallout, etc. The next versions haven't been released and are still all years away. > Hugely excited for Starfield though I pre-ordered it which is huge for me since normally I just wait years until the price drops. I just picked up Cyberpunk at the weekend which should show how long I am willing to wait before getting a AAA game.
  - CapricornNoble 3y ago
    I'm contemplating a Starfield pre-order as well. Last game I pre-ordered was perhaps Hearts of Iron 4. I STILL haven't bought Cyberpunk 2077; until a game hits 75% off on my Steam Wishlist it doesn't exist. If that means I don't play it until 5 years after its release...that's ok.

sebzim4500 3y ago

I don't understand how this can possibly be true. Game devs make nothing, how did it cost more than a million dollars per (peak) employee working on the game? Are there some significant costs other than employee salaries?

Drakim 3y ago
Maybe they aren't counting contractors as employees?
gizmo385 3y ago
Even assuming those costs were _only_ employees and don't include licensing costs, contract costs for major voice talent, etc then you're still looking at about 1,000,000 per employee over the course of the games development. If a game takes 5-6 years for development, then you're looking about 200k average total employee cost per year, which once you factor in things like healthcare and other expenses an employer might have to pay doesn't seem too wild to me?
mehlmao 3y ago
My understanding is that a lot of work on TLOU2 was performed by contractors.
deelowe 3y ago
Fully loaded cost will be could to 2x salary. Spread over the entire game's development, this would come out to a couple hundred k per employee. This isn't insane.
FinnKuhn 3y ago
Probably stuff like offices, hardware, software licences, marketing, server costs and more together with the fact that they worked on it for 5 years (that would mean only 200k per employee) and had all those other costs for those years as well
- autoexec 3y ago
  I'm guessing there's some hollywood accounting going on too

theandrewbailey 3y ago

$220 million is not unheard of, particularly for a game that's intended to sell consoles. GTA 5 had a similarly sized budget. https://www.dualshockers.com/biggest-video-game-budgets/ https://www.dualshockers.com/biggest-video-game-budgets/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_video_games_to_develop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_video_g... As for waiting years between installments, we have plenty of great games to play through in the meantime. "We will release it when it's ready" is a mentality that has sadly been forgotten over the past several years.

that_guy_iain 3y ago
> As for waiting years between installments, we have plenty of great games to play through in the meantime. "We will release it when it's ready" is a mentality that has sadly been forgotten over the past several years. It's very questionable if we do have plenty of great games. And there is a difference between rushing a release and spending 15 years between releases. Putting it as waiting years is presenting it in a false light, it's waiting decades. It's very possible the time between Skyrim and the next installment is 20-years. GTA5 was 10-years ago and has been on 3 different generations of consoles. It could very well be that GTA6 doesn't even get release on PS4 because it'll take so long.

onion2k 3y ago

I don't see it any different to films in a franchise or novels by an author. They can work at whatever pace they want to. We aren't entitled to their efforts and we have no claim over how long they choose to spend making something. I'm just glad they do.

that_guy_iain 3y ago
> We aren't entitled to their efforts and we have no claim over how long they choose to spend making something. I think as paying consumers who they keep selling to there is a level of entitlement. The whole "they don't owe us anything" doesn't really work, they kinda owe us their success. Especially when they re-release the same game multiple times instead of a new one.

add-sub-mul-div 3y ago

More frustrating, I don't think those games necessarily need that much time, it's also Bethesda spacing out the main titles of their major franchises evenly so they don't cannibalize each other. Every time Starfield got delayed, everything after it was delayed too.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

throwawaymobule 3y ago

> probably means Fallout is 10 years away. unless Microsoft gets obsidian to make 'New Vegas 2' on the fallout 4 engine.

codingcodingboy 3y ago

The marketing cost is not included, the budget for the average AAA game is probably very close to half a billion.