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Doesn't really matter as America can go after funds regardless of where you move to. Just pay your fucking taxes, you got the benefits of the system, pay back i

Doesn't really matter as America can go after funds regardless of where you move to. Just pay your fucking taxes, you got the benefits of the system, pay back into it.

Calvin02 3y ago
The article isn't about income taxes. Income taxes are taxes on income that you earn in any calendar year. The article is about wealth taxes. In addition to income taxes, Norway has a wealth tax, which taxes net wealth above $170k (NOK 1.7M) at 1% [0]. So, if your net wealth is $200k, you are taxed 1% on $30k every year. Separately, it is a myth that the wealthy don't pay taxes. This isn't Reddit. Wealthy pay taxes but they also maximize the value of any benefits already included in the tax code. AMT is an attempt to fix this but has its own problems. [0] https://www.lifeinnorway.net/wealth-tax/ https://www.lifeinnorway.net/wealth-tax/
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  Ironically, America does have a wealth tax if you want to relinquish your citizenship. I don't think Norway does, and many rich Scandinavians change citizenship to Switzerland negotiating their taxes straight with the canton they move to (like the founder of Ikea did). It is easier for a Norwegian to optimize their taxes than an American (since America also taxes worldwide income, and you can't just change your citizenship without paying a penalty).
  - laurencerowe 3y ago
    Presumably they don’t need to change their citizenship, they just become tax resident in another country. Most countries only tax residents. Norway is part of the EEA so its citizens have the right to live in Switzerland.
    - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
      Ya, so it is even easier for Europeans. And it wouldn't matter if they were a part of the EEA or not, they would almost definitely negotiate their taxes with the canton of their residency as part of their move (you can easily buy residency in Switzerland). The EEA is more for normal people from the EU who want to work in Switzerland and pay normal taxes (which are still low for Europe).
  - s1artibartfast 3y ago
    The US exit tax is not a wealth tax. It is calling due any deferred capital gains taxes. If you have a billion dollars cash, you can leave and pay zero tax. If you have a billion dollars in assets that have not appreciated since you bought them, you pay zero tax. It is only comes into play if you have investment assets that have gone up since purchase, and you have paid no taxes on them because they are taxed at the time of sale.
    - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
      Ok, that makes sense. Thanks for the clarification.
prottog 3y ago
> you got the benefits of the system, pay back into it The "system" isn't the government, though it's easy to muddle that line, considering some developed countries have government spending that's over half of the GDP (with Norway sitting at around a fifth as of 2021); and the existence of a government that facilitates the "system", which is in reality the private activities of the people, does not make it that without that particular government the system will not exist at all. Imagine a parent who tells a fully-grown child well into his adulthood that they have an ever-increasing claim on what the child produces by virtue of having given birth to and raised him. Does that not sound abusive? That's not the kind of relationship I want with my government. The government, or at least the American one, is meant to serve the people, not rule over them and allow the people to keep whatever scraps the government allows them to keep. Every time you perform a service for somebody or make a widget for somebody -- basically any economic activity -- you are paying back into the system by fulfilling a demand that someone else has. And not just remunerative efforts: every time you pick up a cigarette butt off the street that you didn't smoke, or every time you watch someone else's kid for a night, or you volunteer at a local soup kitchen. Those are all ways that people pay back into the system. Let's not make the mistake of thinking taxation is the only way, or even the most important and effective way. Many roles that are currently performed by government funded via taxation have only been that way very recently in human history, and I'm in no way convinced that this is either optimum or necessary.
- balderdash 3y ago
  >Imagine a parent who tells a fully-grown child well into his adulthood that they have an ever-increasing claim on what the child produces by virtue of having given birth to and raised him. Does that not sound abusive? That's not the kind of relationship I want with my government. The government, or at least the American one, is meant to serve the people, not rule over them and allow the people to keep whatever scraps the government allows them to keep. Thank you for putting that into words, I’ve struggled to succinctly frame the unease that this way of thinking makes me feel.
s1artibartfast 3y ago
How much benefit does someone get and how much should they pay back in? These are reasonable questions.

Doesn't really matter as America can go after funds regardless of where you move to. Just pay your fucking taxes, you got the benefits of the system, pay back into it.

Calvin02 3y ago

The article isn't about income taxes. Income taxes are taxes on income that you earn in any calendar year. The article is about wealth taxes. In addition to income taxes, Norway has a wealth tax, which taxes net wealth above $170k (NOK 1.7M) at 1% [0]. So, if your net wealth is $200k, you are taxed 1% on $30k every year. Separately, it is a myth that the wealthy don't pay taxes. This isn't Reddit. Wealthy pay taxes but they also maximize the value of any benefits already included in the tax code. AMT is an attempt to fix this but has its own problems. [0] https://www.lifeinnorway.net/wealth-tax/ https://www.lifeinnorway.net/wealth-tax/

seanmcdirmid 3y ago
Ironically, America does have a wealth tax if you want to relinquish your citizenship. I don't think Norway does, and many rich Scandinavians change citizenship to Switzerland negotiating their taxes straight with the canton they move to (like the founder of Ikea did). It is easier for a Norwegian to optimize their taxes than an American (since America also taxes worldwide income, and you can't just change your citizenship without paying a penalty).
- laurencerowe 3y ago
  Presumably they don’t need to change their citizenship, they just become tax resident in another country. Most countries only tax residents. Norway is part of the EEA so its citizens have the right to live in Switzerland.
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    Ya, so it is even easier for Europeans. And it wouldn't matter if they were a part of the EEA or not, they would almost definitely negotiate their taxes with the canton of their residency as part of their move (you can easily buy residency in Switzerland). The EEA is more for normal people from the EU who want to work in Switzerland and pay normal taxes (which are still low for Europe).
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  The US exit tax is not a wealth tax. It is calling due any deferred capital gains taxes. If you have a billion dollars cash, you can leave and pay zero tax. If you have a billion dollars in assets that have not appreciated since you bought them, you pay zero tax. It is only comes into play if you have investment assets that have gone up since purchase, and you have paid no taxes on them because they are taxed at the time of sale.
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    Ok, that makes sense. Thanks for the clarification.

prottog 3y ago

> you got the benefits of the system, pay back into it The "system" isn't the government, though it's easy to muddle that line, considering some developed countries have government spending that's over half of the GDP (with Norway sitting at around a fifth as of 2021); and the existence of a government that facilitates the "system", which is in reality the private activities of the people, does not make it that without that particular government the system will not exist at all. Imagine a parent who tells a fully-grown child well into his adulthood that they have an ever-increasing claim on what the child produces by virtue of having given birth to and raised him. Does that not sound abusive? That's not the kind of relationship I want with my government. The government, or at least the American one, is meant to serve the people, not rule over them and allow the people to keep whatever scraps the government allows them to keep. Every time you perform a service for somebody or make a widget for somebody -- basically any economic activity -- you are paying back into the system by fulfilling a demand that someone else has. And not just remunerative efforts: every time you pick up a cigarette butt off the street that you didn't smoke, or every time you watch someone else's kid for a night, or you volunteer at a local soup kitchen. Those are all ways that people pay back into the system. Let's not make the mistake of thinking taxation is the only way, or even the most important and effective way. Many roles that are currently performed by government funded via taxation have only been that way very recently in human history, and I'm in no way convinced that this is either optimum or necessary.

balderdash 3y ago
>Imagine a parent who tells a fully-grown child well into his adulthood that they have an ever-increasing claim on what the child produces by virtue of having given birth to and raised him. Does that not sound abusive? That's not the kind of relationship I want with my government. The government, or at least the American one, is meant to serve the people, not rule over them and allow the people to keep whatever scraps the government allows them to keep. Thank you for putting that into words, I’ve struggled to succinctly frame the unease that this way of thinking makes me feel.

s1artibartfast 3y ago

How much benefit does someone get and how much should they pay back in? These are reasonable questions.