4 ms·

I guess it's good they'll ostensibly be able to attract more talent from other countries, but I think they need to fix their own brain drain problem in the firs

I guess it's good they'll ostensibly be able to attract more talent from other countries, but I think they need to fix their own brain drain problem in the first place. - A Canadian living in the US

MikeTheRocker 3y ago
It all comes down to wages. Sure, you can argue Canada has some stronger social programs or quality of life per dollar, but when you can earn 2-4x the wage for the same work by moving 200km south from Vancouver to Seattle, it's a no-brainer.
- jakeinspace 3y ago
  I’m a US citizen, but moved to Montreal a few years back. I’m earning roughly 40% of what I would be if I moved back even to Philly where I grew up, let alone the west coast. But y’a know, I fell in love with someone here, so it’s tough. I definitely enjoy this city more than any US city I’ve lived in, but on paper it’s easily the dumbest decision of my life.
  - droobles 3y ago
    Sounds like the best decision if you enjoy it and found love. I only ever hear great things about Montreal, my wife and I plan to visit from the US in a couple months on vacation, we're really excited!
    - jakeinspace 3y ago
      It really is a great city. Learning French from zero takes a lot of time and effort though, but I can see it’ll be very worth it.
- throwboatyface 3y ago
  As a Canadian who makes ~250k working for bay area companies from Canada, where can I make 500k-1M in the states?
  - qvrjuec 3y ago
    In the the bay area, Seattle, or NYC.
  - MikeTheRocker 3y ago
    Staff level engineers at big tech companies and late stage startups earn in that range, typically based in Silicon Valley, Seattle and New York City. Check out https://www.levels.fyi/leaderboard/Software-Engineer/Staff-Engineer/country/United-States/ https://www.levels.fyi/leaderboard/Software-Engineer/Staff-E....
- VancouverMan 3y ago
  > Sure, you can argue Canada has some stronger social programs or quality of life per dollar, ... Maybe there was some truth to that in the past, but that certainly isn't the case any longer, and hasn't been for some time now. In practice, Canada's social programs are tremendously costly, limited, and low-quality. The provincial public health care systems are relevant examples of this. It's typical for Canadians with the means to do so to seek medical treatment in the US or abroad, rather than dealing with the slow and ineffective Canadian systems, especially for any serious ailment. The provincial public education systems are similar. Canadians with the financial means to do so will send their children to independent schools, rather than public schools. Even those who don't have the means will still do what they can to make that happen. In terms of the broader quality-of-life picture, it isn't what it used to be. Housing is prohibitively expensive. Food, fuel, vehicles, and other essential goods are expensive. There's much less variety and choice when it comes to retail, restaurants, entertainment, and so forth. The taxation is excessive, especially for getting so little in return. Government makes it far harder than it should be to start and operate a business. At this point, Canada is coasting on past success, and has a reputation that no longer matches reality.
  - TMWNN 3y ago
    >It's typical for Canadians with the means to do so to seek medical treatment in the US or abroad My favorite example of this is Chretien's secret trips to the Mayo Clinic in 1999. <https://web.archive.org/web/20100204202553/http://www.montrealgazette.com/health/ultimate+tier+health+care/2515150/story.html https://web.archive.org/web/20100204202553/http://www.montre...>
wing-_-nuts 3y ago
True, but the US could learn a thing or two from Canada's immigration policies. As a US citizen, I'm pretty vehemently opposed to our temp worker H1B visas, and would much prefer an easier path to permanent residency like Canada has. It's shameful that we have 6-700k people here in the US that are effectively treated as second class 'citizens' and a permanent underclass. I knew one guy who had been waiting on a green card for over a decade.
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > It's shameful that we have 6-700k people here in the US that are effectively treated as second class citizens and a permanent underclass They are either second-class non-citizens (compared to those on immigrant visas) or if using “citizen” broadly to call all those who are immigrants by intent (regardless of status) as well as actual citizens, something like third-class citizens, behind both legal citizens and permanent residents.
  - wing-_-nuts 3y ago
    I was utilizing the phrase in it's common usage. IMHO, the H1B should be abolished, and we should adopt a Canadian style points system that sets a high bar, but once admitted, automatically grants a green card. I think even Hayek himself basically admitted that our worker visa programs were effectively a labor subsidy to megacorps because these workers did not have the same abilities to negotiate and switch companies as others.
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  H1Bs are a path to permanent residency, and at the end of the first renewal, you either have a greencard or (if you are from certain big countries where quotas run out; e.g. China, India, Mexico, Philippines) are in the queue to get a greencard. That is not like other countries. China, for example, is happy to give you a Z visa every year without any path to permanent residency. 9 years and never offered permanent residency, not that I would have probably taken it.

I guess it's good they'll ostensibly be able to attract more talent from other countries, but I think they need to fix their own brain drain problem in the first place. - A Canadian living in the US

MikeTheRocker 3y ago

It all comes down to wages. Sure, you can argue Canada has some stronger social programs or quality of life per dollar, but when you can earn 2-4x the wage for the same work by moving 200km south from Vancouver to Seattle, it's a no-brainer.

jakeinspace 3y ago
I’m a US citizen, but moved to Montreal a few years back. I’m earning roughly 40% of what I would be if I moved back even to Philly where I grew up, let alone the west coast. But y’a know, I fell in love with someone here, so it’s tough. I definitely enjoy this city more than any US city I’ve lived in, but on paper it’s easily the dumbest decision of my life.
- droobles 3y ago
  Sounds like the best decision if you enjoy it and found love. I only ever hear great things about Montreal, my wife and I plan to visit from the US in a couple months on vacation, we're really excited!
  - jakeinspace 3y ago
    It really is a great city. Learning French from zero takes a lot of time and effort though, but I can see it’ll be very worth it.
throwboatyface 3y ago
As a Canadian who makes ~250k working for bay area companies from Canada, where can I make 500k-1M in the states?
- qvrjuec 3y ago
  In the the bay area, Seattle, or NYC.
- MikeTheRocker 3y ago
  Staff level engineers at big tech companies and late stage startups earn in that range, typically based in Silicon Valley, Seattle and New York City. Check out https://www.levels.fyi/leaderboard/Software-Engineer/Staff-Engineer/country/United-States/ https://www.levels.fyi/leaderboard/Software-Engineer/Staff-E....
VancouverMan 3y ago
> Sure, you can argue Canada has some stronger social programs or quality of life per dollar, ... Maybe there was some truth to that in the past, but that certainly isn't the case any longer, and hasn't been for some time now. In practice, Canada's social programs are tremendously costly, limited, and low-quality. The provincial public health care systems are relevant examples of this. It's typical for Canadians with the means to do so to seek medical treatment in the US or abroad, rather than dealing with the slow and ineffective Canadian systems, especially for any serious ailment. The provincial public education systems are similar. Canadians with the financial means to do so will send their children to independent schools, rather than public schools. Even those who don't have the means will still do what they can to make that happen. In terms of the broader quality-of-life picture, it isn't what it used to be. Housing is prohibitively expensive. Food, fuel, vehicles, and other essential goods are expensive. There's much less variety and choice when it comes to retail, restaurants, entertainment, and so forth. The taxation is excessive, especially for getting so little in return. Government makes it far harder than it should be to start and operate a business. At this point, Canada is coasting on past success, and has a reputation that no longer matches reality.
- TMWNN 3y ago
  >It's typical for Canadians with the means to do so to seek medical treatment in the US or abroad My favorite example of this is Chretien's secret trips to the Mayo Clinic in 1999. <https://web.archive.org/web/20100204202553/http://www.montrealgazette.com/health/ultimate+tier+health+care/2515150/story.html https://web.archive.org/web/20100204202553/http://www.montre...>

wing-_-nuts 3y ago

True, but the US could learn a thing or two from Canada's immigration policies. As a US citizen, I'm pretty vehemently opposed to our temp worker H1B visas, and would much prefer an easier path to permanent residency like Canada has. It's shameful that we have 6-700k people here in the US that are effectively treated as second class 'citizens' and a permanent underclass. I knew one guy who had been waiting on a green card for over a decade.

dragonwriter 3y ago
> It's shameful that we have 6-700k people here in the US that are effectively treated as second class citizens and a permanent underclass They are either second-class non-citizens (compared to those on immigrant visas) or if using “citizen” broadly to call all those who are immigrants by intent (regardless of status) as well as actual citizens, something like third-class citizens, behind both legal citizens and permanent residents.
- wing-_-nuts 3y ago
  I was utilizing the phrase in it's common usage. IMHO, the H1B should be abolished, and we should adopt a Canadian style points system that sets a high bar, but once admitted, automatically grants a green card. I think even Hayek himself basically admitted that our worker visa programs were effectively a labor subsidy to megacorps because these workers did not have the same abilities to negotiate and switch companies as others.
seanmcdirmid 3y ago
H1Bs are a path to permanent residency, and at the end of the first renewal, you either have a greencard or (if you are from certain big countries where quotas run out; e.g. China, India, Mexico, Philippines) are in the queue to get a greencard. That is not like other countries. China, for example, is happy to give you a Z visa every year without any path to permanent residency. 9 years and never offered permanent residency, not that I would have probably taken it.