4 ms·

They do the opposite of creating value? Are you serious? What bubble do you live in? Not just to me but to many millions, both uber and airbnb have be almost l

by _8j50 3y ago

They do the opposite of creating value? Are you serious? What bubble do you live in? Not just to me but to many millions, both uber and airbnb have be almost life changing. I don't want to write long-text here so I will just say that taxis, hotels and in-person grocery shopping can die a slow and painful death and it will bring me much joy. Uber and airbnb created value using technology by solving many pain points of consumers. My main beef with them is how they lack transparency. I think if they manage to remove even more humans from the loop with the right legal regulation, it would be even better for consumers and shareholders.

lukev 3y ago
I disagree. Perhaps there’s a case for Uber… having a decent app-based way to summon a ride is a net positive. But the experience is even better in European cities where Uber has successfully integrated with the local taxi system rather than competing with it. Hotels have always been a better experience than AirBnb, and in the last few years at least, a much better price too. And I’m glad shopping apps exist for when I’m sick or whatever, but for the common case the extra cost and hassle is strictly worse than just swinging by the store on my way home.
- ramblenode 3y ago
  > Hotels have always been a better experience than AirBnb, and in the last few years at least, a much better price too. I find AirBnb to have far more options, generally better prices, usually better rooms, almost always more amenities, often better locations, and frequently better/more personable hosts. It's completely changed travel for me. Before AirBnb I was shoehorning my travel plans into the limitations of the hotel, but now I can have a common private space for my entire travel group, cook my own meals in a real kitchen, and have dinner on a patio or a backyard. The hotel charges me a premium for unneeded housekeeping, bland continental breakfast, and valet parking that I won't use--this model was ripe for disruption, regulatory arbitrage aside.
  - lukev 3y ago
    I guess it depends what you're looking for. I travel mostly for work, and I want something above all easy and reliable. I'm expensing all my meals so restaurants aren't a problem. I hate the uncertainty of AirBNBs. They have greatly increased probability for booking issues, not being as described, weird dynamics with neighbors, and arbitrary cleanup/checkout processes. If I was staying with others, on my own dime, for more than a few days, then yes, the calculus does change.
- roarcher 3y ago
  > But the experience is even better in European cities where Uber has successfully integrated with the local taxi system rather than competing with it. In my very limited experience, this may also be because Uber faces far more competition in Europe. I lived in Lisbon for several months a few years ago and there were several relatively local ridesharing apps, for various definitions of "local".
- marssaxman 3y ago
  > Hotels have always been a better experience than AirBnb That is for sure not my experience - I would always rather stay in an AirBnB than some sterile, corporate hotel room.
- dmode 3y ago
  Try staying in a hotel with two kids
- midoridensha 3y ago
  >Perhaps there’s a case for Uber… having a decent app-based way to summon a ride is a net positive. But the experience is even better in European cities where Uber has successfully integrated with the local taxi system rather than competing with it. You'll get very different answers about Uber depending on who you ask, and in what country they live. I think all this really points to the regulation of taxis being a complete and utter failure in much of the US, especially certain large cities there.
- _8j50 3y ago
  > Hotels have always been a better experience than AirBnb, and in the last few years at least, a much better price too. I won't repeat what I said in a sibling comment but Hotels still suck with location, appliances/furniture, square space and experience. Booking them, figuring out costs,etc... is still horrible. And most hotels nickle and dime you on so many things. Plus having to interact and deal with noisy neighbors, bad concierge, queues,key cards,etc... is horrible. If you do this with frequency I promise all this is noticable. > And I’m glad shopping apps exist for when I’m sick or whatever, but for the common case the extra cost and hassle is strictly worse than just swinging by the store on my way home. This is a personal thing but I hate having to go to stores. Before all these apps, that hassle alone was a big reason I was eating fastfood all the time. Bottom line is: these apps make available experiences that are otherwise inaccessible to many people. I am afraid I would be willing to pay more to them if needed and support them with legislation/ordinance. Next to rent, these apps take mostlf my pay check now to put it in perspective. So while your experience maybe different, I promise you, the value they have created is bigger than what even amazon and walmart have created.
Apocryphon 3y ago
I think they certainly do offer value in terms of customer experience. But behind the scenes, they rely upon unsustainable business models dependent upon Saudi oil wealth and other VC capital, while shoveling externalities back to society.
- _8j50 3y ago
  I'll just say that uber is breaking even this year and is expectes to be profitable next year: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/uber-technologies-inc-nyse-uber-140020457.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/uber-technologies-inc-nyse-ub... Although they might keep choosing to re-invest or get more capital/debt.
  - jtode 3y ago
    We're just mutual randos, but let's see where we're at in two years. I think that a different set of priorities will have begun to dominate things by then.
Shawnj2 3y ago
I’m surprised people have as much of a huge problem with AirBNB as they do, VRBO has existed basically forever and is a non Silicon Valley version of the same service.
- disgruntledphd2 3y ago
  Quantity has a quality all of it's own, I suppose. AirBnB made the market much, much larger and that coupled with QE driving house prices up made people look at the service more cynically. Like, I generally stay in hotels now even though I would prefer AirBnB because the social consequences of AirBnB are super bad.
  - thunky 3y ago
    It's not Airbnb's fault though. If the law wants to ban short term house rentals it can. If not, it's fair game for everyone. Banning would have to include VRBO because they do the exact same thing.
    - disgruntledphd2 3y ago
      Yeah agreed. Logic tends not to get much of a look in in policy decisions though.
  - _8j50 3y ago
    The social consequences of cars was "white flight" and decimation of inner cities. Super bad. But hardly a reason to avoid cars. The real cause was lack of public transportation to suburbs which is a failure of policy. Same with airbnb, blame lawmakers for failure in policy and try to change that. Avoiding the technology/system won't change the supply/demand economics.
    - disgruntledphd2 3y ago
      Yeah but I live in a world where they're not building enough houses so me in an Airbnb at the margin, increases rent for people poorer than me.
stev-0 3y ago
> Uber and airbnb created value using technology by solving many pain points of consumers. I don’t think this is as the USP airbnb was going for. Companies like Booking.com, trifago.com and Hotel.com existed prior to airbnb and had a pretty decent “human-less” UX. I thought the usp of airbnb was that everyone with a place could rent it out on that platform. That should increase the supply. It worked pretty well for a while and still does so to a certain extend. Regulations make its service useless in some countries though. I’m not sure what Uber did to improve the market but they’ve always been dearer than taxies where I’m from. I don’t mind giving a taxi central a call either…
- _8j50 3y ago
  Those sites are for hotels. Hotels suck in many ways, a mid-range airbnb has more space and amenities than high end hotel suite. I've stayed at super expensive vegas suites and dubai hotels and their TV is shit at both places. Nice bedsheet but meh beds, less space, less privacy, can't compare their kitchen or sofa to even a low end apartment airbnb. Also, this is real-estate, "location, location, location". I've stayed at several airbnb's inside or right next to national parks! Uber? Are you kidding me? You don't remember how horrible it was getting taxis to just show up? They cost a fortune by comparison too. And every cabbie tries to cheat you. I've even used Uber for daily commute and it was cheaper than my own car! Cost aside, the reliability and user experience is much better. Now, had taxis come together and built an app to improve ux, consumer cost,increase consumer base and reduce fraud the I'll give you thar Uber would have had to compete. But man, I for one was very glad to see their medallions' value get decimated for the horrible way they treated me in the past.
  - disgruntledphd2 3y ago
    > Now, had taxis come together and built an app to improve ux, consumer cost,increase consumer base and reduce fraud the I'll give you thar Uber would have had to compete This existed, it was called Hailo and they operated a (mostly) franchise based model. Uber drove them out of business by breaking the laws and spending more than they earned.
cyberneticist 3y ago
[flagged]
- _8j50 3y ago
  Be careful what you hate on, you will become that thing.

by _8j50 3y ago

lukev 3y ago

I disagree. Perhaps there’s a case for Uber… having a decent app-based way to summon a ride is a net positive. But the experience is even better in European cities where Uber has successfully integrated with the local taxi system rather than competing with it. Hotels have always been a better experience than AirBnb, and in the last few years at least, a much better price too. And I’m glad shopping apps exist for when I’m sick or whatever, but for the common case the extra cost and hassle is strictly worse than just swinging by the store on my way home.

ramblenode 3y ago
> Hotels have always been a better experience than AirBnb, and in the last few years at least, a much better price too. I find AirBnb to have far more options, generally better prices, usually better rooms, almost always more amenities, often better locations, and frequently better/more personable hosts. It's completely changed travel for me. Before AirBnb I was shoehorning my travel plans into the limitations of the hotel, but now I can have a common private space for my entire travel group, cook my own meals in a real kitchen, and have dinner on a patio or a backyard. The hotel charges me a premium for unneeded housekeeping, bland continental breakfast, and valet parking that I won't use--this model was ripe for disruption, regulatory arbitrage aside.
- lukev 3y ago
  I guess it depends what you're looking for. I travel mostly for work, and I want something above all easy and reliable. I'm expensing all my meals so restaurants aren't a problem. I hate the uncertainty of AirBNBs. They have greatly increased probability for booking issues, not being as described, weird dynamics with neighbors, and arbitrary cleanup/checkout processes. If I was staying with others, on my own dime, for more than a few days, then yes, the calculus does change.
roarcher 3y ago
> But the experience is even better in European cities where Uber has successfully integrated with the local taxi system rather than competing with it. In my very limited experience, this may also be because Uber faces far more competition in Europe. I lived in Lisbon for several months a few years ago and there were several relatively local ridesharing apps, for various definitions of "local".
marssaxman 3y ago
> Hotels have always been a better experience than AirBnb That is for sure not my experience - I would always rather stay in an AirBnB than some sterile, corporate hotel room.
dmode 3y ago
Try staying in a hotel with two kids
midoridensha 3y ago
>Perhaps there’s a case for Uber… having a decent app-based way to summon a ride is a net positive. But the experience is even better in European cities where Uber has successfully integrated with the local taxi system rather than competing with it. You'll get very different answers about Uber depending on who you ask, and in what country they live. I think all this really points to the regulation of taxis being a complete and utter failure in much of the US, especially certain large cities there.
_8j50 3y ago
> Hotels have always been a better experience than AirBnb, and in the last few years at least, a much better price too. I won't repeat what I said in a sibling comment but Hotels still suck with location, appliances/furniture, square space and experience. Booking them, figuring out costs,etc... is still horrible. And most hotels nickle and dime you on so many things. Plus having to interact and deal with noisy neighbors, bad concierge, queues,key cards,etc... is horrible. If you do this with frequency I promise all this is noticable. > And I’m glad shopping apps exist for when I’m sick or whatever, but for the common case the extra cost and hassle is strictly worse than just swinging by the store on my way home. This is a personal thing but I hate having to go to stores. Before all these apps, that hassle alone was a big reason I was eating fastfood all the time. Bottom line is: these apps make available experiences that are otherwise inaccessible to many people. I am afraid I would be willing to pay more to them if needed and support them with legislation/ordinance. Next to rent, these apps take mostlf my pay check now to put it in perspective. So while your experience maybe different, I promise you, the value they have created is bigger than what even amazon and walmart have created.

Apocryphon 3y ago

I think they certainly do offer value in terms of customer experience. But behind the scenes, they rely upon unsustainable business models dependent upon Saudi oil wealth and other VC capital, while shoveling externalities back to society.

_8j50 3y ago
I'll just say that uber is breaking even this year and is expectes to be profitable next year: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/uber-technologies-inc-nyse-uber-140020457.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/uber-technologies-inc-nyse-ub... Although they might keep choosing to re-invest or get more capital/debt.
- jtode 3y ago
  We're just mutual randos, but let's see where we're at in two years. I think that a different set of priorities will have begun to dominate things by then.

Shawnj2 3y ago

I’m surprised people have as much of a huge problem with AirBNB as they do, VRBO has existed basically forever and is a non Silicon Valley version of the same service.

disgruntledphd2 3y ago
Quantity has a quality all of it's own, I suppose. AirBnB made the market much, much larger and that coupled with QE driving house prices up made people look at the service more cynically. Like, I generally stay in hotels now even though I would prefer AirBnB because the social consequences of AirBnB are super bad.
- thunky 3y ago
  It's not Airbnb's fault though. If the law wants to ban short term house rentals it can. If not, it's fair game for everyone. Banning would have to include VRBO because they do the exact same thing.
  - disgruntledphd2 3y ago
    Yeah agreed. Logic tends not to get much of a look in in policy decisions though.
- _8j50 3y ago
  The social consequences of cars was "white flight" and decimation of inner cities. Super bad. But hardly a reason to avoid cars. The real cause was lack of public transportation to suburbs which is a failure of policy. Same with airbnb, blame lawmakers for failure in policy and try to change that. Avoiding the technology/system won't change the supply/demand economics.
  - disgruntledphd2 3y ago
    Yeah but I live in a world where they're not building enough houses so me in an Airbnb at the margin, increases rent for people poorer than me.

stev-0 3y ago

> Uber and airbnb created value using technology by solving many pain points of consumers. I don’t think this is as the USP airbnb was going for. Companies like Booking.com, trifago.com and Hotel.com existed prior to airbnb and had a pretty decent “human-less” UX. I thought the usp of airbnb was that everyone with a place could rent it out on that platform. That should increase the supply. It worked pretty well for a while and still does so to a certain extend. Regulations make its service useless in some countries though. I’m not sure what Uber did to improve the market but they’ve always been dearer than taxies where I’m from. I don’t mind giving a taxi central a call either…

_8j50 3y ago
Those sites are for hotels. Hotels suck in many ways, a mid-range airbnb has more space and amenities than high end hotel suite. I've stayed at super expensive vegas suites and dubai hotels and their TV is shit at both places. Nice bedsheet but meh beds, less space, less privacy, can't compare their kitchen or sofa to even a low end apartment airbnb. Also, this is real-estate, "location, location, location". I've stayed at several airbnb's inside or right next to national parks! Uber? Are you kidding me? You don't remember how horrible it was getting taxis to just show up? They cost a fortune by comparison too. And every cabbie tries to cheat you. I've even used Uber for daily commute and it was cheaper than my own car! Cost aside, the reliability and user experience is much better. Now, had taxis come together and built an app to improve ux, consumer cost,increase consumer base and reduce fraud the I'll give you thar Uber would have had to compete. But man, I for one was very glad to see their medallions' value get decimated for the horrible way they treated me in the past.
- disgruntledphd2 3y ago
  > Now, had taxis come together and built an app to improve ux, consumer cost,increase consumer base and reduce fraud the I'll give you thar Uber would have had to compete This existed, it was called Hailo and they operated a (mostly) franchise based model. Uber drove them out of business by breaking the laws and spending more than they earned.

cyberneticist 3y ago

[flagged]

_8j50 3y ago
Be careful what you hate on, you will become that thing.