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Me and my friend think that some companies are doing this as a way to lay people off without laying people off. If that's the case, it's a severe miscalculation

Me and my friend think that some companies are doing this as a way to lay people off without laying people off. If that's the case, it's a severe miscalculation as the employees most likely to leave are in theory, the best ones. They believe in themselves and that they can get another (remote) job very easily.

HDThoreaun 3y ago
I think it’s pretty clear that rto is a way to get people to quit, but I’m not so sure about the first to leave theory. The best employees in my org are the ones who are most committed to the product. They’re not super likely to leave just because they’re so personally invested in what we’re doing. The average employees are still able to get offers, they’re the ones that tend to leave.
- m0oncake 3y ago
  I think it is true that the best people are the first to go, at least based on my first hand experience. The forced rto was on of the nails in the coffin that got me to finally leave. I wasn't the only one to go and without trying to sound egotistical I was one of the best people there so it was easy to get another job that was fully remote. I've kept in contact with a few ex co-workers who are still there and the only reason they're staying is because they don't currently have the experience / knowledge to go somewhere else.
- chii 3y ago
  > The best employees in my org One might want to differentiate between loyalty and competency. Is a highly competent workforce but they're not loyal, better than a very loyal but somewhat incompetent workforce?
- spacemadness 3y ago
  So in other words, “the best employees” are the ones to turn the other cheek when they get mistreated because they are committed to “the product.” That’s certainly a convenient take for the managerial types in the room.
  - HDThoreaun 3y ago
    correlation is not causation. I don't think it's very surprising that caring deeply about the product leads to better job performance. I also don't think it's very surprising that caring deeply about the product makes it easier for management to mistreat workers. They're not the same thing though.
- PartiallyTyped 3y ago
  N=1; I am a key person for the project we are shipping, it's my vision to some extend, and I am very comfortable picking my things and going elsewhere. Very few products can actually get people to stay.

HDThoreaun 3y ago

I think it’s pretty clear that rto is a way to get people to quit, but I’m not so sure about the first to leave theory. The best employees in my org are the ones who are most committed to the product. They’re not super likely to leave just because they’re so personally invested in what we’re doing. The average employees are still able to get offers, they’re the ones that tend to leave.

m0oncake 3y ago
I think it is true that the best people are the first to go, at least based on my first hand experience. The forced rto was on of the nails in the coffin that got me to finally leave. I wasn't the only one to go and without trying to sound egotistical I was one of the best people there so it was easy to get another job that was fully remote. I've kept in contact with a few ex co-workers who are still there and the only reason they're staying is because they don't currently have the experience / knowledge to go somewhere else.
chii 3y ago
> The best employees in my org One might want to differentiate between loyalty and competency. Is a highly competent workforce but they're not loyal, better than a very loyal but somewhat incompetent workforce?
spacemadness 3y ago
So in other words, “the best employees” are the ones to turn the other cheek when they get mistreated because they are committed to “the product.” That’s certainly a convenient take for the managerial types in the room.
- HDThoreaun 3y ago
  correlation is not causation. I don't think it's very surprising that caring deeply about the product leads to better job performance. I also don't think it's very surprising that caring deeply about the product makes it easier for management to mistreat workers. They're not the same thing though.
PartiallyTyped 3y ago
N=1; I am a key person for the project we are shipping, it's my vision to some extend, and I am very comfortable picking my things and going elsewhere. Very few products can actually get people to stay.