4 ms·

Frankly a pretty dumb article. The effects of psychedelics are fundamentally different from the narcotics most people associate with people being "on drugs".

by cwkoss 3y ago

Frankly a pretty dumb article. The effects of psychedelics are fundamentally different from the narcotics most people associate with people being "on drugs". Taking psychedelics occasionally has an effect on the user closer to attending psychotherapy than the hedonistic escapism of opiates or stimulants. It puts users in touch with subconscious feelings they were not previously able to articulate. In 30 years, people taking LSD or psilocybin once a quarter to get in touch with their feelings will probably be entirely unremarkable. We're just in a bit of a chaotic period while we shake off the silly propaganda of the 70s war machine that feared that hippies were going to cut off their money spigot. The way it has panned out, it is now blatantly clear that psychedelic use is not a threat to capital: SV capital has embraced psychedelic use and is just as greedy and selfish as their east coast cocaine-and-alcohol using counterparts on wall street. Psychedelics don't make people more moral: they just get them in touch with themselves - it looked threatening to the economic order when only communists and free love hippies took them, because in the 70s squares were too afraid to try psychedelics. But now that the squares have started taking psychedelics, its pretty clear (and possibly unfortunate, IMO) they don't turn into communists as a result.

H8crilA 3y ago
Yes I definitely want my CEO to be on psychedelics while signing major sales contracts. Same goes for doctors (especially surgeons) and special forces operators. Many of the things that are popular among tech circles are actually researched. For example Ketamine is available in Switzerland for treatment of depression, and there's a lot of know-how on the topic. I reckon you could fly here for treatment if you can afford to live in the area for a while. Spoiler: it's not a silver bullet. It's a bit like when crypto bros slowly rediscover every single widely accepted idea for regulating finance, securities, disclosure, trading, ...
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- ng12 3y ago
  Honestly I probably want all those people to be comfortably enjoying psychedelics, just not while on the clock.
- ianbutler 3y ago
  Yeah. You know they're not tripping at work right?
  - HDThoreaun 3y ago
    Some of them absolutely are
  - Blackthorn 3y ago
    There was a ridiculous time on Hacker News where there was at least an article a day about microdosing LSD at work.
    - ianbutler 3y ago
      You know microdosing doesn't make you trip right?
      - fjeosnsheiwnw 3y ago
        You know making every single point by writing a disingenuous question like this is an obnoxious, annoying type of rhetoric, right? There is almost no circumstance where “you know … right?” makes you worthwhile, pleasurable, or persuasive to talk to, particularly when it’s on a rhythm. It just makes you annoying, and usually confrontational and dismissive (as here), and it goes a long way to demonstrating how you feel about yourself compared to others (hint: not a good look if your goal is to persuade).
        ianbutler 3y ago
        I'm not trying to be pleasant or persuasive. These people are uninformed making sweeping generalizations based on nothing. I just can't actively insult them because of site rules. For the record, I've never microdosed, but I do have the courtesy to inform myself at a basic level before jumping into threads to shit on other people who do. You can't bring nothing to the table and expect other people to hold your hand gently coaching you through a basic google search. Fuck that.
- jrflowers 3y ago
  > Yes I definitely want my CEO to be on psychedelics while signing major sales contracts. This is a good point. Doing a drug once means you’re doing it constantly until you die. This is why every person to ever take LSD is currently in a jam band and why all of those people that did cocaine in the 80s are long dead from sleep deprivation.
- cwkoss 3y ago
  - Any CEO who would choose to be tripping for a major contract signing is reckless in a way that would manifest itself negatively regardless of availability of psychedelics. - Ketamine is also available for depression treatment in America. - I don't get the analogy. Do you just dislike fads?
ianbutler 3y ago
I don't think I'd put stimulants in the hedonistic escapism bin, at least not for people who may be frequenters of this site. If anything the people using them are trying to escape less. SWIM can confirm pretty unremarkable here in regards to psychedelics. They're a senior eng working in a big co. SWIM doesn't use them anymore but they did have a permanent effect on reducing anger so that was nice. SWIM = someone who isn't me
- operatingthetan 3y ago
  >I don't think I'd put stimulants in the hedonistic escapism bin Baffling conclusion. Even mild doses over prescription levels will lead to a dark, primal, obsessive state.
  - ianbutler 3y ago
    I'd say the same back at you. Most people using them to work, are using normal dosages. Normal doses induce a focus state. For the sake of argument, hypothetically, if I had a lot of experience here, I'd probably say no one I know using them to work more effectively takes them in a way that matches your response.
    - operatingthetan 3y ago
      It's interesting how discussing the darker side of stimulants makes regular users of them uncomfortable. You assuming that your friends are being good kids and taking their correct prescribed doses is irrelevant to the factual effects of the drug at various doses. The other poster was generalizing the drug, carefully containing the discussion to a realm of comfort doesn't lead to very interesting discussion. The fact is, that amphetamines are hedonistic drugs, and you can clearly see descriptions of such behavior on any thread that discusses the negative state of west coast cities. Throw in SBF and his coworkers openly admitting to abusing adderall on twitter, it's not shocking abuse is common and leads to negative business outcomes.
      - ianbutler 3y ago
squirtlebonflow 3y ago
In many social circles, it already is.
freejazz 3y ago
> hedonistic escapism Have you ever actually done opiates or stimulants or psychedelics?
- cwkoss 3y ago
  What are you, a cop?
  - freejazz 3y ago
    Just someone who finds their description to not be accurate
hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
> The effects of psychedelics are fundamentally different from the narcotics most people associate with people being "on drugs". I don't mean to provide yet another example of "all Internet arguments are about semantics", but as someone who used to do various drugs, including shrooms and ecstasy, I think you have an uncommon definition of "being on drugs". I most certainly considered myself as being on drugs when I was tripping. And while yes, I think it's helpful to differentiate between drugs that can be strongly physically addicting (cocaine, alcohol, nicotine, opiods, etc.) vs. other drugs that tend not to be physically addicting, I find it amusing how psychedelics are now commonly thought as completely benign, as just "getting in touch with your feelings." To be clear, I pretty much agree, but I'm also not going to deny that I (and many others) could get, for lack of a more scientific term, "completely fucked up" on psychedelics. I actually thought this was a great article (but I admit it's rare for me to find a Matt Levine piece I don't like). It didn't really appear to be "taking sides" on the issue, just informing what's going on, and I enjoyed the style of writing.

by cwkoss 3y ago

H8crilA 3y ago

Yes I definitely want my CEO to be on psychedelics while signing major sales contracts. Same goes for doctors (especially surgeons) and special forces operators. Many of the things that are popular among tech circles are actually researched. For example Ketamine is available in Switzerland for treatment of depression, and there's a lot of know-how on the topic. I reckon you could fly here for treatment if you can afford to live in the area for a while. Spoiler: it's not a silver bullet. It's a bit like when crypto bros slowly rediscover every single widely accepted idea for regulating finance, securities, disclosure, trading, ...

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
ng12 3y ago
Honestly I probably want all those people to be comfortably enjoying psychedelics, just not while on the clock.
ianbutler 3y ago
Yeah. You know they're not tripping at work right?
- HDThoreaun 3y ago
  Some of them absolutely are
- Blackthorn 3y ago
  There was a ridiculous time on Hacker News where there was at least an article a day about microdosing LSD at work.
  - ianbutler 3y ago
    You know microdosing doesn't make you trip right?
    - fjeosnsheiwnw 3y ago
      You know making every single point by writing a disingenuous question like this is an obnoxious, annoying type of rhetoric, right? There is almost no circumstance where “you know … right?” makes you worthwhile, pleasurable, or persuasive to talk to, particularly when it’s on a rhythm. It just makes you annoying, and usually confrontational and dismissive (as here), and it goes a long way to demonstrating how you feel about yourself compared to others (hint: not a good look if your goal is to persuade).
      - ianbutler 3y ago
        I'm not trying to be pleasant or persuasive. These people are uninformed making sweeping generalizations based on nothing. I just can't actively insult them because of site rules. For the record, I've never microdosed, but I do have the courtesy to inform myself at a basic level before jumping into threads to shit on other people who do. You can't bring nothing to the table and expect other people to hold your hand gently coaching you through a basic google search. Fuck that.
jrflowers 3y ago
> Yes I definitely want my CEO to be on psychedelics while signing major sales contracts. This is a good point. Doing a drug once means you’re doing it constantly until you die. This is why every person to ever take LSD is currently in a jam band and why all of those people that did cocaine in the 80s are long dead from sleep deprivation.
cwkoss 3y ago
- Any CEO who would choose to be tripping for a major contract signing is reckless in a way that would manifest itself negatively regardless of availability of psychedelics. - Ketamine is also available for depression treatment in America. - I don't get the analogy. Do you just dislike fads?

ianbutler 3y ago

I don't think I'd put stimulants in the hedonistic escapism bin, at least not for people who may be frequenters of this site. If anything the people using them are trying to escape less. SWIM can confirm pretty unremarkable here in regards to psychedelics. They're a senior eng working in a big co. SWIM doesn't use them anymore but they did have a permanent effect on reducing anger so that was nice. SWIM = someone who isn't me

operatingthetan 3y ago
>I don't think I'd put stimulants in the hedonistic escapism bin Baffling conclusion. Even mild doses over prescription levels will lead to a dark, primal, obsessive state.
- ianbutler 3y ago
  I'd say the same back at you. Most people using them to work, are using normal dosages. Normal doses induce a focus state. For the sake of argument, hypothetically, if I had a lot of experience here, I'd probably say no one I know using them to work more effectively takes them in a way that matches your response.
  - operatingthetan 3y ago
    It's interesting how discussing the darker side of stimulants makes regular users of them uncomfortable. You assuming that your friends are being good kids and taking their correct prescribed doses is irrelevant to the factual effects of the drug at various doses. The other poster was generalizing the drug, carefully containing the discussion to a realm of comfort doesn't lead to very interesting discussion. The fact is, that amphetamines are hedonistic drugs, and you can clearly see descriptions of such behavior on any thread that discusses the negative state of west coast cities. Throw in SBF and his coworkers openly admitting to abusing adderall on twitter, it's not shocking abuse is common and leads to negative business outcomes.
    - ianbutler 3y ago

squirtlebonflow 3y ago

In many social circles, it already is.

freejazz 3y ago

> hedonistic escapism Have you ever actually done opiates or stimulants or psychedelics?

cwkoss 3y ago
What are you, a cop?
- freejazz 3y ago
  Just someone who finds their description to not be accurate

hn_throwaway_99 3y ago

> The effects of psychedelics are fundamentally different from the narcotics most people associate with people being "on drugs". I don't mean to provide yet another example of "all Internet arguments are about semantics", but as someone who used to do various drugs, including shrooms and ecstasy, I think you have an uncommon definition of "being on drugs". I most certainly considered myself as being on drugs when I was tripping. And while yes, I think it's helpful to differentiate between drugs that can be strongly physically addicting (cocaine, alcohol, nicotine, opiods, etc.) vs. other drugs that tend not to be physically addicting, I find it amusing how psychedelics are now commonly thought as completely benign, as just "getting in touch with your feelings." To be clear, I pretty much agree, but I'm also not going to deny that I (and many others) could get, for lack of a more scientific term, "completely fucked up" on psychedelics. I actually thought this was a great article (but I admit it's rare for me to find a Matt Levine piece I don't like). It didn't really appear to be "taking sides" on the issue, just informing what's going on, and I enjoyed the style of writing.