11 ms·

Don't forget making SMS in unreadable neon green (to the point that it violates Apple's own accessibility guidelines https://archive.is/4nSWV https://archive.is

by madars 3y ago

Don't forget making SMS in unreadable neon green (to the point that it violates Apple's own accessibility guidelines https://archive.is/4nSWV https://archive.is/4nSWV) "iMessage on Android would simply serve to remove [an] obstacle to iPhone families giving their kids Android phones" -- an actual quote from the SVP of Software Engineering in charge of iOS, revealed in Epic Games v Apple court discovery https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.364265/gov.uscourts.cand.364265.407.0.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.36... Of course, if you really cared about green bubbles, you'd switch to Android because there you can adjust outgoing message color to your heart's liking :-)

lttlrck 3y ago
SMS messages have always been green on iOS. Since before iMessage existed. I don't recall ever having trouble reading them.
- madars 3y ago
  They deliberately reduced the contrast. Compare iOS 5 when iMessage came out: https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/archive/09-27-2011/ios5_imessage_text.jpg https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/archive/09-27... and now: https://images.macworld.co.uk/cmsdata/features/3468389/how_to_send_text_from_iphone_imessage_text_1000.jpg https://images.macworld.co.uk/cmsdata/features/3468389/how_t... This underscores GP's point: Apple is expert at making anti-consumer decisions that fall just inside the Overton window.
  - js2 3y ago
    What am I missing here? In iOS 5, it's black on blue vs black on green. Now it's white on blue vs white on green. Contrast between text and background looks the same to whether green or blue. In general, Apple has lowered contrast throughout the UI over the years. There's an accessibility setting for high contrast if you need it.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - AprilArcus 3y ago
      Green has higher luminance than blue at equivalent saturation. The values for SMS and iMessage background colors are, respectively and in sRGB, #00CC46 and #0080FF, corresponding to relative luminance values of 0.436 and 0.227 according to the WCAG 2 formula. With white foreground text, this gives a contrast ratio of 2.15:1 for SMS and 3.79:1 for iMessage. WCAG 2.x AA level compliances requires a contrast ratio of at least 4.5:1 for normal text and at least 3:1 for large text. https://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG21/Understanding/contrast-minimum.html https://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG21/Understanding/contrast-minimum...
      - madars 3y ago
        Thanks! If you have a calculations workflow already, what would the contrast ratios (even if approximate) be for old iOS? To a human eye it truly looks like SMS got way worse whereas iMessage stayed around the same.
        AprilArcus 3y ago
        The pre-iOS 7 graphics have black text over a non-uniform background color as compared to white text over a uniform background color. This gives us ranges instead of a single value, but even in the worst case, black is a vastly more legible foreground color: | iOS 5-6 | iOS 7+ | ---------+-------------+--------+ SMS | 11.3 - 13.4 | 2.2 | iMessage | 11.8 - 14.1 | 3.8 |
      - js2 3y ago
        Thank you. FWIW, here is it under iOS 16 with Accessibility > Display & Text Size > Increase Contrast turned on. https://imgur.com/a/b61lmAf https://imgur.com/a/b61lmAf To my eyes, the green/blue doesn't make much difference in terms of legibility. I obviously find the reduced contrast throughout iOS annoying and keep increase contrast turned on.
    - cosmotron 3y ago
  - ProfessorLayton 3y ago
    It's worth pointing out that Apple has some of the best accessibility options out there. There's an "Increase Contrast" setting that increases the contrast for SMS messages. Yes, one could argue that the default should provide high contrast for everyone, but once this setting is enabled, it effectively becomes just that going forward for those that need it.
    - mywittyname 3y ago
      Apple products seem to require more and more tweaking of the right settings to be usable. I'm dreading the day I have to get a replacement MacBook and have to tweak all my settings again.
- _rs 3y ago
  Not to mention it's only the messages you send that are with a green background, messages you receive from either platform have a grey background
- trinsic2 3y ago
  I also Have no trouble reading text messages from Android in IOS. not sure what people are talking about. I still think its wrong to distinguish between the two platforms as it points to anti-competitive behavior. Apple does other things that are way worse.
twobitshifter 3y ago
The color thing is an urban legend. Original iPhone chat bubbles were green pre-Apple having an alternative to SMS. The messages icon is green. For some reason Apple thought messages should be green.
- BudaDude 3y ago
  It's not that its green thats the issue, is the shade of green they chose. It does not contrast well with white text and makes it hard to read.
  - rootusrootus 3y ago
    But the argument does become a lot weaker unless they changed the shade of green after introducing iMessage. If it stayed the same, then it's just the design they chose from the beginning. Also worth noting is that the color only applies to sent messages. When you receive a message, it's just gray in either case. It makes a certain amount of sense to let the user know which transport their outbound message went on since it will affect your expectations.
    - ryukafalz 3y ago
      They did change the shade of green, and the newer one is much less readable. See for yourself: Original: https://ronstauffer.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/taking-a-picture-of-a-text-message-on-an-iphone.jpg https://ronstauffer.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/taking-a-pic... Current: https://support.apple.com/library/content/dam/edam/applecare/images/en_US/iOS/ios12-iphone-x-messags-green-sms.jpg https://support.apple.com/library/content/dam/edam/applecare...
      - rootusrootus 3y ago
        It may just be that I happen to have my reading glasses on right now, but both of those are easy to read. But let's run with that for a moment, and assume many people do in fact find that more difficult to read. I still have trouble calling that particularly hostile given that it's sent messages, received ones are the same color no matter what. I'm more open to the green vs blue argument than the old-green vs new-green one. Apple definitely wants you to know you're using iMessage. It just happens to be useful for me as a customer, too -- I'm glad it's prominent when I send a text message instead of an iMessage. It aligns my expectations for what features will work in the conversation.
dopa42365 3y ago
[flagged]
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
skygazer 3y ago
For those not familiar, on an iPhone the green background only occurs on the messages the iPhone user has previously sent, and not those they have received from others. Also, whilst they’re typing, they do not have a green background in the text box. However, that said, to my eyes, the green background does indeed make it slightly harder to read what you’ve previously sent compared to the blue backgrounds of iMessage, or the black on light gray of received messages. But it’s slightly less of a problem to me because I generally remember what I’ve typed well enough to give my eyes an advantage.
jackson1442 3y ago
a much stronger argument than color imo is apple’s refusal to implement RCS, which would make the experience of communicating with android users. generally I try to avoid SMS since the photo quality is bad, there’s no delivery guarantee, and it doesn’t work over wifi.

by madars 3y ago

lttlrck 3y ago

SMS messages have always been green on iOS. Since before iMessage existed. I don't recall ever having trouble reading them.

madars 3y ago
They deliberately reduced the contrast. Compare iOS 5 when iMessage came out: https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/archive/09-27-2011/ios5_imessage_text.jpg https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/archive/09-27... and now: https://images.macworld.co.uk/cmsdata/features/3468389/how_to_send_text_from_iphone_imessage_text_1000.jpg https://images.macworld.co.uk/cmsdata/features/3468389/how_t... This underscores GP's point: Apple is expert at making anti-consumer decisions that fall just inside the Overton window.
- js2 3y ago
  What am I missing here? In iOS 5, it's black on blue vs black on green. Now it's white on blue vs white on green. Contrast between text and background looks the same to whether green or blue. In general, Apple has lowered contrast throughout the UI over the years. There's an accessibility setting for high contrast if you need it.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - AprilArcus 3y ago
    Green has higher luminance than blue at equivalent saturation. The values for SMS and iMessage background colors are, respectively and in sRGB, #00CC46 and #0080FF, corresponding to relative luminance values of 0.436 and 0.227 according to the WCAG 2 formula. With white foreground text, this gives a contrast ratio of 2.15:1 for SMS and 3.79:1 for iMessage. WCAG 2.x AA level compliances requires a contrast ratio of at least 4.5:1 for normal text and at least 3:1 for large text. https://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG21/Understanding/contrast-minimum.html https://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG21/Understanding/contrast-minimum...
    - madars 3y ago
      Thanks! If you have a calculations workflow already, what would the contrast ratios (even if approximate) be for old iOS? To a human eye it truly looks like SMS got way worse whereas iMessage stayed around the same.
      - AprilArcus 3y ago
        The pre-iOS 7 graphics have black text over a non-uniform background color as compared to white text over a uniform background color. This gives us ranges instead of a single value, but even in the worst case, black is a vastly more legible foreground color: | iOS 5-6 | iOS 7+ | ---------+-------------+--------+ SMS | 11.3 - 13.4 | 2.2 | iMessage | 11.8 - 14.1 | 3.8 |
    - js2 3y ago
      Thank you. FWIW, here is it under iOS 16 with Accessibility > Display & Text Size > Increase Contrast turned on. https://imgur.com/a/b61lmAf https://imgur.com/a/b61lmAf To my eyes, the green/blue doesn't make much difference in terms of legibility. I obviously find the reduced contrast throughout iOS annoying and keep increase contrast turned on.
  - cosmotron 3y ago
- ProfessorLayton 3y ago
  It's worth pointing out that Apple has some of the best accessibility options out there. There's an "Increase Contrast" setting that increases the contrast for SMS messages. Yes, one could argue that the default should provide high contrast for everyone, but once this setting is enabled, it effectively becomes just that going forward for those that need it.
  - mywittyname 3y ago
    Apple products seem to require more and more tweaking of the right settings to be usable. I'm dreading the day I have to get a replacement MacBook and have to tweak all my settings again.
_rs 3y ago
Not to mention it's only the messages you send that are with a green background, messages you receive from either platform have a grey background
trinsic2 3y ago
I also Have no trouble reading text messages from Android in IOS. not sure what people are talking about. I still think its wrong to distinguish between the two platforms as it points to anti-competitive behavior. Apple does other things that are way worse.

twobitshifter 3y ago

The color thing is an urban legend. Original iPhone chat bubbles were green pre-Apple having an alternative to SMS. The messages icon is green. For some reason Apple thought messages should be green.

BudaDude 3y ago
It's not that its green thats the issue, is the shade of green they chose. It does not contrast well with white text and makes it hard to read.
- rootusrootus 3y ago
  But the argument does become a lot weaker unless they changed the shade of green after introducing iMessage. If it stayed the same, then it's just the design they chose from the beginning. Also worth noting is that the color only applies to sent messages. When you receive a message, it's just gray in either case. It makes a certain amount of sense to let the user know which transport their outbound message went on since it will affect your expectations.
  - ryukafalz 3y ago
    They did change the shade of green, and the newer one is much less readable. See for yourself: Original: https://ronstauffer.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/taking-a-picture-of-a-text-message-on-an-iphone.jpg https://ronstauffer.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/taking-a-pic... Current: https://support.apple.com/library/content/dam/edam/applecare/images/en_US/iOS/ios12-iphone-x-messags-green-sms.jpg https://support.apple.com/library/content/dam/edam/applecare...
    - rootusrootus 3y ago
      It may just be that I happen to have my reading glasses on right now, but both of those are easy to read. But let's run with that for a moment, and assume many people do in fact find that more difficult to read. I still have trouble calling that particularly hostile given that it's sent messages, received ones are the same color no matter what. I'm more open to the green vs blue argument than the old-green vs new-green one. Apple definitely wants you to know you're using iMessage. It just happens to be useful for me as a customer, too -- I'm glad it's prominent when I send a text message instead of an iMessage. It aligns my expectations for what features will work in the conversation.

dopa42365 3y ago

[flagged]

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

skygazer 3y ago

For those not familiar, on an iPhone the green background only occurs on the messages the iPhone user has previously sent, and not those they have received from others. Also, whilst they’re typing, they do not have a green background in the text box. However, that said, to my eyes, the green background does indeed make it slightly harder to read what you’ve previously sent compared to the blue backgrounds of iMessage, or the black on light gray of received messages. But it’s slightly less of a problem to me because I generally remember what I’ve typed well enough to give my eyes an advantage.

jackson1442 3y ago

a much stronger argument than color imo is apple’s refusal to implement RCS, which would make the experience of communicating with android users. generally I try to avoid SMS since the photo quality is bad, there’s no delivery guarantee, and it doesn’t work over wifi.