8 ms·

finally, a modern alternative to systemd.

by felixgallo 3y ago

hackcasual 3y ago
OpenRC predates systemd I believe
- Arnavion 3y ago
  It's also not a complete alternative, because it doesn't have anything for user session services like `systemd --user`. I use postmarketOS which is based on Alpine which uses OpenRC, and desktop session daemons currently have to be started by the compositor via XDG autostart files. So services start fine but they're not restarted if they crash, they have ad-hoc logging, etc. One of the pmOS devs wrote a user session service manager [1] but pmOS doesn't use it (yet?). And Alpine as a whole is planning on moving away from OpenRC anyway. [1]: https://git.sr.ht/~craftyguy/superd https://git.sr.ht/~craftyguy/superd
  - jabl 3y ago
    Oh, what is Alpine planning to move to?
    - Arnavion 3y ago
      https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36496431 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36496431
  - navi-desu 3y ago
    > It's also not a complete alternative, because it doesn't have anything for user session services like `systemd --user`. i am working on a implementation of that for openrc for a while now, it's been working nicely so far: https://github.com/OpenRC/openrc/pull/573 https://github.com/OpenRC/openrc/pull/573
    - JdeBP 3y ago
      Enjoy https://jdebp.uk/Softwares/nosh/guide/per-user-dbus-demand-start.html https://jdebp.uk/Softwares/nosh/guide/per-user-dbus-demand-s... and https://jdebp.uk/Softwares/nosh/guide/commands/dbus-daemon-launch-helper.xml https://jdebp.uk/Softwares/nosh/guide/commands/dbus-daemon-l... .
  - chlorion 3y ago
    There is work being done to add user sessions to openrc by some person. It seems pretty cool so far! I'm not totally sure whether openrc will merge this or not, but I would definitely like to see this be added. edit: They actually seem to have replied to you while I was writing the original comment.
  - m4rtink 3y ago
    It really seems strange to me that postmarketOS does not use systemd, given how its too main usecases (mobile use as well as server use of repurposed devices) would certainly benefit from a mature service manager. Possibly even if they had to put it on top of Alpine themselves.
    - Arnavion 3y ago
      pmOS has no intention of moving off of Alpine base, and systemd is still incompatible with musl (or vice versa, depending on which side you're on in the arguement :) ), and OpenRC works well enough for now.
- hedora 3y ago
  That doesn't mean its initial design didn't learn from the mistakes systemd made.
  - edgyquant 3y ago
    How could that be possible if it predates systemd?
    - hedora 3y ago
      systemd repeats a lot of mistakes that systems prior to openrc made, and that openrc avoided.
jmclnx 3y ago
And it is portable to the BSDs, what a concept, writting portable applications :) To bad that is now out of fashion. If the BSD software was not portable Linux would not have gotten off the ground.
- PlutoIsAPlanet 3y ago
  It’s a system service manager, it being portable is not a requirement nor any benefit when BSD has nearly no traction in the desktop or server space other than a few cases.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
    > it being portable is not a requirement nor any benefit when BSD has nearly no traction in the desktop or server space other than a few cases. Is your argument that portability is irrelevant because nothing but (systemd/)GNU/Linux matters, or that service manager in particular don't need to be portable?
  - jmclnx 3y ago
    Some complex applications are starting to require systemd components. So yes, portability may become important to the BSDs.
    - Gud 3y ago
      Which applications?
      - bmacho 3y ago
        GNOME since more than 10 years
        bandrami 3y ago
        Gnome runs on OpenBSD so it clearly doesn't "require" systemd
bitwize 3y ago
Systemd is a complete solution to a variety of problems with system services under Linux, including user sessions, non-racy session termination, etc. Other init systems, not so much. There are no alternatives to systemd, kinda like there are no alternatives to Excel. Some packages solve many of the same problems, but none solve all of them as thoroughly.
- blablabla123 3y ago
  > non-racy session termination I've seen a lot of dangling sessions with systemd actually although I'm not sure what the root cause is.
  - bandrami 3y ago
    I had to get an intern to basically live in the server room and look for screens saying "stop command for user 1001 waiting 30 seconds... 90 seconds..." etc. and power cycle the machine. It's ludicrous.
    - tadfisher 3y ago
      In other words, tell me you've never adminned systemd without telling me you've never adminned systemd. Hint: man systemd.service, look for TimeoutStopSec.
      - bandrami 3y ago
        lol no. Never worked. Tell me you've never run systemd in a server room without telling me you've never actually run systemd in a server room.
        tadfisher 3y ago
        My comment is embarrassing. I'm sorry for that.
- anthk 3y ago
bandrami 3y ago
OpenRC was released 3 years before systemd

finally, a modern alternative to systemd.

hackcasual 3y ago

OpenRC predates systemd I believe

Arnavion 3y ago
It's also not a complete alternative, because it doesn't have anything for user session services like `systemd --user`. I use postmarketOS which is based on Alpine which uses OpenRC, and desktop session daemons currently have to be started by the compositor via XDG autostart files. So services start fine but they're not restarted if they crash, they have ad-hoc logging, etc. One of the pmOS devs wrote a user session service manager [1] but pmOS doesn't use it (yet?). And Alpine as a whole is planning on moving away from OpenRC anyway. [1]: https://git.sr.ht/~craftyguy/superd https://git.sr.ht/~craftyguy/superd
- jabl 3y ago
  Oh, what is Alpine planning to move to?
  - Arnavion 3y ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36496431 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36496431
- navi-desu 3y ago
  > It's also not a complete alternative, because it doesn't have anything for user session services like `systemd --user`. i am working on a implementation of that for openrc for a while now, it's been working nicely so far: https://github.com/OpenRC/openrc/pull/573 https://github.com/OpenRC/openrc/pull/573
  - JdeBP 3y ago
    Enjoy https://jdebp.uk/Softwares/nosh/guide/per-user-dbus-demand-start.html https://jdebp.uk/Softwares/nosh/guide/per-user-dbus-demand-s... and https://jdebp.uk/Softwares/nosh/guide/commands/dbus-daemon-launch-helper.xml https://jdebp.uk/Softwares/nosh/guide/commands/dbus-daemon-l... .
- chlorion 3y ago
  There is work being done to add user sessions to openrc by some person. It seems pretty cool so far! I'm not totally sure whether openrc will merge this or not, but I would definitely like to see this be added. edit: They actually seem to have replied to you while I was writing the original comment.
- m4rtink 3y ago
  It really seems strange to me that postmarketOS does not use systemd, given how its too main usecases (mobile use as well as server use of repurposed devices) would certainly benefit from a mature service manager. Possibly even if they had to put it on top of Alpine themselves.
  - Arnavion 3y ago
    pmOS has no intention of moving off of Alpine base, and systemd is still incompatible with musl (or vice versa, depending on which side you're on in the arguement :) ), and OpenRC works well enough for now.
hedora 3y ago
That doesn't mean its initial design didn't learn from the mistakes systemd made.
- edgyquant 3y ago
  How could that be possible if it predates systemd?
  - hedora 3y ago
    systemd repeats a lot of mistakes that systems prior to openrc made, and that openrc avoided.

jmclnx 3y ago

And it is portable to the BSDs, what a concept, writting portable applications :) To bad that is now out of fashion. If the BSD software was not portable Linux would not have gotten off the ground.

PlutoIsAPlanet 3y ago
It’s a system service manager, it being portable is not a requirement nor any benefit when BSD has nearly no traction in the desktop or server space other than a few cases.
- yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
  > it being portable is not a requirement nor any benefit when BSD has nearly no traction in the desktop or server space other than a few cases. Is your argument that portability is irrelevant because nothing but (systemd/)GNU/Linux matters, or that service manager in particular don't need to be portable?
- jmclnx 3y ago
  Some complex applications are starting to require systemd components. So yes, portability may become important to the BSDs.
  - Gud 3y ago
    Which applications?
    - bmacho 3y ago
      GNOME since more than 10 years
      - bandrami 3y ago
        Gnome runs on OpenBSD so it clearly doesn't "require" systemd

bitwize 3y ago

Systemd is a complete solution to a variety of problems with system services under Linux, including user sessions, non-racy session termination, etc. Other init systems, not so much. There are no alternatives to systemd, kinda like there are no alternatives to Excel. Some packages solve many of the same problems, but none solve all of them as thoroughly.

blablabla123 3y ago
> non-racy session termination I've seen a lot of dangling sessions with systemd actually although I'm not sure what the root cause is.
- bandrami 3y ago
  I had to get an intern to basically live in the server room and look for screens saying "stop command for user 1001 waiting 30 seconds... 90 seconds..." etc. and power cycle the machine. It's ludicrous.
  - tadfisher 3y ago
    In other words, tell me you've never adminned systemd without telling me you've never adminned systemd. Hint: man systemd.service, look for TimeoutStopSec.
    - bandrami 3y ago
      lol no. Never worked. Tell me you've never run systemd in a server room without telling me you've never actually run systemd in a server room.
      - tadfisher 3y ago
        My comment is embarrassing. I'm sorry for that.
anthk 3y ago

bandrami 3y ago

OpenRC was released 3 years before systemd