9 ms·
Volvo Cars Adopts Tesla's NACS Port in the United States, Canada and Mexico
- the_mitsuhiko 3y agoI wonder how the 800V car manufacturers will respond.
- WaxProlix 3y agoGood question. They'll be understandably unhappy that their competitive advantage is being muscled away. I worry about the future innovation that was planned for these companies that are moving from CCS to Tesla, as adopting it really does put an upper bound on charge speeds. Definitely a big win for Tesla across the board.
- nekoashide 3y agoIt needed to happen, between the existing Tesla network and the IIJA upcoming spending on a charging network it will make EV adoption happen much faster. Competing standards only hurts the consumers and will slow EV adoption.
- rootusrootus 3y agoI don't think 800V is a competitive advantage yet. Hyundai has the fastest charging EV at the moment, but it still doesn't use 350kW and it's only a few minutes faster than a Tesla for 10-80. Plus, it's not at all clear that they won't be forced to dial the number down -- Teslas used to charge a bit faster but it was really messing with the batteries, and Hyundai may be about to hit a similar problem. The C rate they'll allowing their batteries to charge at is pretty high.
- fffernan 3y agoThey should have responded 10 years ago and built a reliable charging network across the globe.
- dghughes 3y agoYes a big leap backward for any EVs with 800V systems like Hyundai, Porsche, Mercedes, Polestar, Lucid Air. Until NACS v2 arrives but even that is less than 1000V edit: I guess NACS 1000V would be v4 not v2
- pkulak 3y agoFrom what I can tell with my eyeballs, whatever the voltage limit is, it's less for NACS, since the DC pins are closer together.
- rootusrootus 3y agoIt falls into the category of 'high enough.' IIRC Tesla mentions 1000V for NACS. And we already know that superchargers happily push more than 600A. That's such a ridiculous amount of power that it'll be decades before batteries aren't the limit.
- BooneJS 3y agoNACS won slowly, and then suddenly (at least in the public eye)
- 1970-01-01 3y agoIt was a de facto standard by any measure. The sudden part is whenever SAE blesses it to the de jure charging standard.
- WorldMaker 3y agoWhich is indeed in process: https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/27/23775208/tesla-nacs-electric-car-charging-standard-sae-chargepoint https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/27/23775208/tesla-nacs-elect...
- nharada 3y agoGood. Great. As long as there's just one, I don't care which.
- notyourwork 3y agoMy only concern with one is that we're giving one private company a monopoly on it. Is that good, I'm not sure but in general it's usually not good for consumers.
- flutas 3y agoLooks like SAE is writing standards for it, so doesn't seem like the monopoly power is going to be there. https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/06/27/tesla-electric-vehicle-charging-plug-standard/bab5ae42-1508-11ee-9de3-ba1fa29e9bec_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/06/27/tesla-ele...
- rootusrootus 3y agoAre we giving them a monopoly? The standard was published, and as someone else mentioned SAE is in the process of formalizing it. I also doubt very much that Ford, GM, et al actually negotiated their contracts without some stipulation that there couldn't be a rug pull.
- dghughes 3y agoMy Canadian town of 70,000 has about 100 public CCS charging stations but one for Telsa. So no not great. It's already there so why are they switching? A GM executive was on the news saying how Canadians complained in a survey there were not enough charging stations. I say BS. This sudden study appears and contradicts the 10:1 ratio of CCS to Tesla charger in my town?
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago> My Canadian town of 70,000...It's already there so why are they switching? It's estimated America will need around 2mm EV chargers by 2030; it currently has about 160k [1]. Every charger currently deployed is less than a tenth of what we need in seven years. That's not quite tabula rasa, but it's close. CCS lost because it prioritized backward compatibility in an environment where most of what's needed must be built. The difference between sticking with existing infrastructure and retrofitting is, in the grand scheme, a rounding error and so properly ignored. [1] https://electrek.co/2023/01/09/heres-how-many-ev-chargers-the-us-has-and-how-many-it-needs/#:~:text=And%20looking%20to%202030%2C%20with,addition%20to%20home%20EV%20chargers https://electrek.co/2023/01/09/heres-how-many-ev-chargers-th...
- b0sk 3y agoCCS is done.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago> CCS is done Who are the remaining CCS adherents?
- flutas 3y agoHyundai is one I know of, but they've put out a "we're looking into swapping" statement. https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/23/23771215/hyundai-investor-day-ima-ev-platform-tesla-nacs-port https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/23/23771215/hyundai-investor...
- localhost 3y agoPorsche for one - don't know of others.
- mertd 3y agoAll of Europe.
- jeroenhd 3y agoEvery other car except for the American models of Volvo and Tesla, from what I can tell. That said, there are two CCS standards, one for (older) Japanese and American vehicles (SAE J1772), and another widely used in Europe (IEC 62196 Type). Both have been designed to be as backwards compatible with older charging standards as possible. European Teslas ship with CCS Type 2 so I doubt this will have any impact on Volvos outside the USA.
- ryndshn 3y agodoes this include polestar?
- jguimont 3y agoSame parent company and same technology (the 2 is basically an XC/C-40 with a different body). Yes they will make the move, just need the announcement.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago> the company is the first European car maker Is Volvo properly described as a European car maker? I thought it was owned by Geely. (EDIT: Missed the merger being called off [1].) [1] https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/25/business/geely-auto-volvo-intl-hnk/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/25/business/geely-auto-volvo-int...
- the_mitsuhiko 3y agoIt's a public company headquartered in Sweden.
- sam_lowry_ 3y agoOwned by Chinese still.
- babypuncher 3y agoGeely owns 8% of the company. I wasn't aware nationality was determined by minority ownership
- duckmysick 3y ago8.2% of the Volvo Group (AB Volvo). 82% of Volvo Cars. From the 2022 report: > Volvo Car AB (publ.), with its registered office in Gothenburg, Sweden, is a publicly listed company on the Nasdaq Stockholm Stock Exchange. The largest owner, holding 82 per cent of shares and capital, is Geely Sweden Holdings AB, owned by Shanghai Geely Zhaoyuan International Investment Co., Ltd., registered in Shanghai, China, and ultimately owned by Zhejiang Geely Holding Group Ltd., registered in Hangzhou, China. https://vp272.alertir.com/afw/files/press/volvocar/202303076447-1.pdf https://vp272.alertir.com/afw/files/press/volvocar/202303076...
- throw0101a 3y agoWill SAE (or IEC?) take over the stewardship of the port at some point? (AIUI, the comm protocol is (will be?) CCS/IEC 61851?)
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago> Will SAE (or IEC?) take over the stewardship of the port at some point? Something like that [1]. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/06/27/tesla-electric-vehicle-charging-plug-standard/bab5ae42-1508-11ee-9de3-ba1fa29e9bec_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/06/27/tesla-ele...
- ryzvonusef 3y agolooks like it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36495397 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36495397
- hedora 3y agoIt's pretty shocking that all the charge networks are getting rug pulled because they couldn't figure out how to accept payment reliably. I wonder if Tesla has figured that out for third-party automobiles yet. (I mean, I assume they have, but I assumed the other charge networks would be able to obtain working credit card readers, and that definitely didn't happen.)
- tyingq 3y ago"pretty shocking that all the charge networks are getting rug pulled because they couldn't figure out how to accept payment reliably." Is there a reference for this somewhere? I didn't know this was a problem.
- throwaway5959 3y agoIt’s not. I drive a CCS car. The reason EA and EVGo are getting demolished is due to the comically limited number of chargers they install per station (four commonly vs dozens at Tesla stations) and the unreliability of the chargers themselves. I’ve never had a problem with payment.
- xeromal 3y agoNothing more frustrating than going to a full charger with a line and driving over to another place that's open just for it to charge your card but fail to initialize.
- rootusrootus 3y agoThis is the big one for me, too. I've driven non-Tesla and Tesla EVs for years, and the big draw of the supercharger stations is that there's so many stalls that there's always one open. When I roadtrip with the CCS car, I get lucky when there's one of the four stalls available.
- willio58 3y agoI don't think the payment was the main issue, it's always been the overall reliability of the chargers not being great.
- avalys 3y agoI think this is great but I continue to wonder about Tesla's plan here. The Supercharger network is one of their remaining competitive advantages. Other manufacturers were behind for years on efficiency, range, etc. but are now catching up - and other manufacturers are far better at making an actual _car_ than Tesla. Build quality, quality control, durability, comfort, noise, etc. Unless Tesla is so confident that their manufacturing skills will give them a continuing and durable cost advantage - that makes up for the fact that they haven't innovated or even improved their basic vehicle design for the past 10 years - I don't see how this works to their advantage.
- jabart 3y agoThis would mean they are a nationwide power company with the ability to charge more kWH for reduced charging time. Add in solar panels,battery banks, and optimizing recharging with the local power company and it's printing cash at that point. I think it's also that the EV market needs better charging stations, that are more reliable as the existing charging brands have a bad reputation. Tesla also needs charging stations to work for non-tesla vehicles or the trust in a EV would drop.
- rtkwe 3y agoThis lets them bring in tons of money from owners of other manufacturer's cars using their chargers. It also means they don't get forced into CCS in NA which was the probable alternative path to convincing other manufacturers to use their NACS hardware.
- rootusrootus 3y agoThe supercharger network is just a drop in the bucket compared to what they make from selling new cars. And there will be quite a lot of competition for fast chargers, there's no moat at all there. It's an interesting business decision.
- starik36 3y ago> other manufacturers are far better at making an actual car Are they really "far better"? My wife's Tesla hasn't had any issues in the last 3 years. The build quality is great. Every time I have a chance to take the Tesla over my Kia, I do it because it's so much more pleasant to drive it. Over the years I've had many cars. I am struggling to think of one better than the current Tesla that we have.
- jguimont 3y agoYour turn VW Group.
- joezydeco 3y agoShhh! Don't distract them. They're still trying to get their batteries working. https://www.cars.com/research/volkswagen-id.4/recalls/ https://www.cars.com/research/volkswagen-id.4/recalls/