5 ms·

wholesale auctions operate with a surprising amount of trust, often buyers never actually see the car, they buy based on the specs and description. The vehicle

by habnds 3y ago

wholesale auctions operate with a surprising amount of trust, often buyers never actually see the car, they buy based on the specs and description. The vehicle is then shipped to the buyer, and in some cases. the buyer, when finally seeing the vehicle, will get in touch with the seller and say "this isn't "great" condition, this is "good", for _reasons_" and negotiate an adjustment of the price to reflect that. The plaintiff is in the comments of that article and mentions most auctions don't allow computer diagnostics on a car.

oefrha 3y ago
> most auctions don't allow computer diagnostics on a car. I was thinking about running the diagnostics immediately after delivery instead of after two dozen mechanical failures. But another comment says the diagnostics software is very expensive and difficult to acquire, makes sense if true.
- jprete 3y ago
  Automotive repair products are oriented around business purchases and sales, so everything is expensive, and designed for professional repair of either lots of various customer vehicles or a managed fleet of vehicles.
- SoftTalker 3y ago
  A generic OBDII scanner that will read mileage and engine fault codes is not expensive, they are on Amazon and other sellers. The better ones run up to several hundred dollars. For some things you do need the manufacture's software but not for reading mileage and standard fault codes.
horsawlarway 3y ago
Most auctions just don't allow real inspection at all. At best they pop the hood and let you look at the undercarriage or drive the car by for a minute (and quite a few auctions will ask you to pay for even that tiny amount of inspection). That said - odometer fraud is a big fucking deal here. A vehicle with unknown mileage is worth far less at auction (just the fact that it's unknown is a huge flag) and if the auctioneer was aware of the fraud (as they're implying Holman Fleet Leasing was) then I'm curious to see how this is resolved... a smaller auction house would likely see jail time for several employees.
- registeredcorn 3y ago
  > Most auctions just don't allow real inspection at all. At best they pop the hood and let you look at the undercarriage or drive the car by for a minute Why is this? Just a time restraint thing, or what? I don't understand why an auction wouldn't allow bidders an opportunity to check out the product before they purchase. The pessimist in me would say it's in the auctioneers best interest to give as little information as possible, in order to get the highest bids, but it seems odd that this sounds to be a standard practice. Shouldn't bidders insist on at least a single 3rd party to say the mileage for the crowd?
  - justinator 3y ago
    Well it's being sold at auction, not by the first party and it's very likely that any questions a bidder has can't be answered anyways. You take your chances and the payoff is a good deal for you. The auction makes money from volume. I agree though that changing the odometer is criminal to do. But one shouldn't be buying cars at auction unless they know what they're doing. Buying a used FedEx van at auction comes with a few known... stipulations.
    - registeredcorn 3y ago
      Ah, that's a good point I hadn't considered. Thanks for the response. :)
- dredmorbius 3y ago
  One would think that the auctioneer would benefit from maximal disclosure, as the present situation as you describe it is precisely that portrayed in Akerlof's "The Market for Lemons": <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Market_for_Lemons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Market_for_Lemons> Moreover, many states require regular smog checks, at least on passenger vehicles (though I'm not sure what the situation is for commercial vehicles). These entail a comprehensive electronic data record, much of which is automatically captured from the vehicle, and which is available for sale. Auto insurance companies have used these data for years, if not decades, to set policy rates as miles driven is a principle driver (ahem) of risk. If VINs are avaiable for the vehicles being auctioned, it's possible that a service such as CARFAX might carry such data. I suspect bulk / corporate buyers would tend to have access to such information, whilst small-time operators / individuals likely would not, which throws an additional bias into such auctions.
learn_more 3y ago
I've noticed that these commercial auctions conspicuously do not publish the mileage in the listing, just a photo of the odometer. It's interpretation is up to the buyer. That behavior should tell you something.
stevehawk 3y ago
>wholesale auctions operate with a surprising amount of trust Just to correct this - auctions operate with a whole lot of caveat emptor which is why auctions are supposed to be relatively "value buys".. in an auction transaction.. if you're not sure if you're the sucker... then you're the sucker.

by habnds 3y ago

oefrha 3y ago

> most auctions don't allow computer diagnostics on a car. I was thinking about running the diagnostics immediately after delivery instead of after two dozen mechanical failures. But another comment says the diagnostics software is very expensive and difficult to acquire, makes sense if true.

jprete 3y ago
Automotive repair products are oriented around business purchases and sales, so everything is expensive, and designed for professional repair of either lots of various customer vehicles or a managed fleet of vehicles.
SoftTalker 3y ago
A generic OBDII scanner that will read mileage and engine fault codes is not expensive, they are on Amazon and other sellers. The better ones run up to several hundred dollars. For some things you do need the manufacture's software but not for reading mileage and standard fault codes.

horsawlarway 3y ago

Most auctions just don't allow real inspection at all. At best they pop the hood and let you look at the undercarriage or drive the car by for a minute (and quite a few auctions will ask you to pay for even that tiny amount of inspection). That said - odometer fraud is a big fucking deal here. A vehicle with unknown mileage is worth far less at auction (just the fact that it's unknown is a huge flag) and if the auctioneer was aware of the fraud (as they're implying Holman Fleet Leasing was) then I'm curious to see how this is resolved... a smaller auction house would likely see jail time for several employees.

registeredcorn 3y ago
> Most auctions just don't allow real inspection at all. At best they pop the hood and let you look at the undercarriage or drive the car by for a minute Why is this? Just a time restraint thing, or what? I don't understand why an auction wouldn't allow bidders an opportunity to check out the product before they purchase. The pessimist in me would say it's in the auctioneers best interest to give as little information as possible, in order to get the highest bids, but it seems odd that this sounds to be a standard practice. Shouldn't bidders insist on at least a single 3rd party to say the mileage for the crowd?
- justinator 3y ago
  Well it's being sold at auction, not by the first party and it's very likely that any questions a bidder has can't be answered anyways. You take your chances and the payoff is a good deal for you. The auction makes money from volume. I agree though that changing the odometer is criminal to do. But one shouldn't be buying cars at auction unless they know what they're doing. Buying a used FedEx van at auction comes with a few known... stipulations.
  - registeredcorn 3y ago
    Ah, that's a good point I hadn't considered. Thanks for the response. :)
dredmorbius 3y ago
One would think that the auctioneer would benefit from maximal disclosure, as the present situation as you describe it is precisely that portrayed in Akerlof's "The Market for Lemons": <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Market_for_Lemons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Market_for_Lemons> Moreover, many states require regular smog checks, at least on passenger vehicles (though I'm not sure what the situation is for commercial vehicles). These entail a comprehensive electronic data record, much of which is automatically captured from the vehicle, and which is available for sale. Auto insurance companies have used these data for years, if not decades, to set policy rates as miles driven is a principle driver (ahem) of risk. If VINs are avaiable for the vehicles being auctioned, it's possible that a service such as CARFAX might carry such data. I suspect bulk / corporate buyers would tend to have access to such information, whilst small-time operators / individuals likely would not, which throws an additional bias into such auctions.

learn_more 3y ago

I've noticed that these commercial auctions conspicuously do not publish the mileage in the listing, just a photo of the odometer. It's interpretation is up to the buyer. That behavior should tell you something.

stevehawk 3y ago

>wholesale auctions operate with a surprising amount of trust Just to correct this - auctions operate with a whole lot of caveat emptor which is why auctions are supposed to be relatively "value buys".. in an auction transaction.. if you're not sure if you're the sucker... then you're the sucker.