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I think the real indictment on establishment thinking is that we need to perform a postmortem on the Denver program before we can extoll the virtues of subsidiz
by Karrot_Kream 3y ago
I think the real indictment on establishment thinking is that we need to perform a postmortem on the Denver program before we can extoll the virtues of subsidizing ebikes and yet subsidizing electric cars seems to have been a quick default option with little reflection involved.
Cars are so deeply ingrained in American infrastructural thinking, it's ridiculous.
- Analemma_ 3y agoWhen it was announced that the repair of the collapsed bit of I-95 in Philadelphia was going to take just a couple weeks instead of the original estimate of six months, I almost had a rage blackout. It's not that we don't have the ability to build anymore; we clearly do! But while building anything which could actually help gets strangled to death in red tape and citizen meetings where J. Nimby asks what it will do to the historic heritage parking lot across the street, god forbid anything get in the way of the almighty automobile.
- cscurmudgeon 3y agoYou do realize that not just cars used roads? Goods, groceries, e-bikes don’t magically transport to their final destinations. Edit: there is this Captain Planet like view of cars as though most drivers are evil polluters. We are just trying to get on with our lives and aren’t privileged as folks who can afford to live car free.
- ori_b 3y agoYeah, it's shame those vital arteries of goods are always so choked up with personal cars.
- cscurmudgeon 3y agoYep groceries just grow wings and fly to stores. TP just grows wings and flies to barhrooms straight from the factories.
- 0xfaded 3y agoIt sure sucks paying taxes and not getting separated and protected cycling lanes.
- cscurmudgeon 3y agoWhat separate taxes do cyclists pay over gas tax and annual DMV taxes that car drivers pay? Shouldn’t cyclists pay their fair share for their usage? Why no DMV fee for cycles?
- sleepybrett 3y agoa bicycle doesn't wear the road like a car does. A bridge built for bicycles doesn't have to be built to carry so much weight and would be cheaper. Bicycle infrastructure is cheaper to build and maintain.
- Karrot_Kream 3y agoOn average only 41% of US roads are funded by a gas tax and only 53% are funded by some form of user fee, gas tax inclusive [1]. This formula varies per state. Cyclists subsidize road usage for drivers who use them much more, both because cars are much heavier and lead to increased wear and because drivers drive more miles and therefore put more wear on more roadway. It's a common myth that people believe US roads are solely or even mostly funded through user fees. [1]: https://taxfoundation.org/states-road-funding-2019/ https://taxfoundation.org/states-road-funding-2019/
- cscurmudgeon 3y ago> On average only 41% of US roads are funded by a gas tax and only 53% are funded by some form of user fee, gas tax inclusive [1] What about thousands in DMV fees? Your reference doesn’t cover that. Why does everyone ignore that? > It's a common myth that people believe US roads are solely or even mostly funded through user fees. Just repeating the same falsehood from biased sources doesn’t make it true. Once again give me a source with DMV fees.
- klabb3 3y agoPassenger vehicles is the vast majority, so the majority of infrastructure cost and especially land use is a direct result of car-centrism. But you still make an important point: even old cities in Europe rely on (usually a bit smaller) trucks, today, for deliveries of goods in the city. And blue light traffic is still dependent on roads and streets. Bikes and e-bikes use so little space it’s a rounding error.
- cscurmudgeon 3y agoI can understand (irrational) car hate but hating roads? We aren’t living in 3023 with teleporting groceries.
- klabb3 3y agoI don’t think that’s a common opinion. I haven’t even met anyone that hate cars, but there are many that think car-centrism results in boring, isolated cities. That’s quite reasonable, since car centrism is, so far, a historical anomaly in terms of urbanism. Humans have been building cities for millennia. The US suburbia model is just objectively novel, an outlier in human civilization. Doesn’t mean it’s bad of itself, but it’s certainly not normative.
- seanmcdirmid 3y agoI lived in Beijing when they replaced a whole overpass bridge (三元桥) overnight. That was nuts. And ya, traffic would have been killed if they took more than a night to do it since you can only get from north to south on a ring road (so 3rd ring traffic would have been diverted to 2nd or 4th ring, that just wasn’t going to happen), leaving the subway as the only reasonable option. But then china builds all of its projects out quickly.
- Ericson2314 3y agoGlad there are more of us!
- almost_usual 3y agoThere is also a lot of money invested in the electric car movement right now.
- seanmcdirmid 3y agoIt seems dumb to subsidize EVs, it is and was a huge tax give away to the mostly rich. The EVs would sell themselves now without the tax breaks.