6 ms·

“Sports betting is illegal in Maryland, and federal law prohibits bookmakers from flouting that law simply because they are located outside the country," DHS sa

by lhnn 15y ago

“Sports betting is illegal in Maryland, and federal law prohibits bookmakers from flouting that law simply because they are located outside the country," DHS said. LOL what? "You can't flout the law just because you're outside the jurisdiciton of the law". --- Also, the crux of the article is that a .COM domain registered an operated by Canadian entities was "taken over" by Verisign at the behest of DHS. Verisign added NS records at the root to redirect the affected domain to a takedown page.

raganwald 15y ago
Are they saying that an English company (where sports betting is legal) taking bets from English punters is running afoul of Maryland law? I doubt it. What they are saying is that doing business with American citizens is subject to American laws. EDIT: An interesting read... http://www.vegassportsmasters.com/?q=article/feds-arrest-english-shore-bookmaker-del-mar-begins-67th-season http://www.vegassportsmasters.com/?q=article/feds-arrest-eng...
- MatthewPhillips 15y ago
  Which is also ridiculous. American citizens are subject to American laws; the person making the bet.
- pbhjpbhj 15y ago
  >Are they saying that an English company (where sports betting is legal) taking bets from English punters is running afoul of Maryland law? // Didn't Britain just extradite (or at least accede to an extradition 'request') a young man to the US for operating a service providing media links (but apparently no copyright material) - where it's likely that his actions were wholly legal under English law and he never set foot outside of the country ... Seems like USA has their way regardless of other peoples democracy. -- http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9013408/Student-who-created-illegal-TV-shack-website-to-be-extradited-to-US.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9013408/Student...
  - raganwald 15y ago
    Ow, you touched a sore spot, we Canadians did exactly the same thing by extraditing a fellow who was selling grass seeds by mail to US citizens. Strangely (sarcasm intended), we have refused such requests for the operators of online pharmacies, who employ a lot of people and generate sales for some big and influential Pharma companies in Canada.
    - cperciva 15y ago
      It's not strange at all: Canada extradites people if the actions they are accused of are crimes in Canada. Drug trafficking, for all that it generally isn't enforced in the case of marijuana, is illegal in Canada; so a Canadian accused of trafficking drugs into the US was extradited. Selling prescription medications to patients with proper prescriptions is legal in Canada.
      - bryanlarsen 15y ago
        But selling marijuana seeds is not (was not?) illegal in Canada.
        cperciva 15y ago
        Viable marijuana seeds are included in Schedule II of the CDSA. The law isn't enforced, but it's still there.
        redthrowaway 15y ago
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled_Drugs_and_Substances_Act#Schedule_II http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled_Drugs_and_Substances... It appears that, while non-viable seeds are explicitly legal, there does not appear to be any prohibition against viable seeds, unless they are considered a marijuana "preparation". I suspect there's some case law floating around where a court has decided whether or not cannabis seeds are considered a marijuana preparation. Edit: Erowid is somewhat helpful in this regard, although the linked article is broken: http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_law.shtml http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_law.shtml
- DanBC 15y ago
  But why aren't they going after the Americans who are breaking American law, rather than the non-Americans who are just doing business? But see also this (someone else posted it on HN, but I can't remember who or where): (http://cphpost.dk/news/international/us-snubs-out-legal-cigar-transaction http://cphpost.dk/news/international/us-snubs-out-legal-ciga...)
  - marshray 15y ago
    They could easily go after Americans, but then they'd having things like due process and trials by jury to worry about. Instead, DHS would rather set precedent that a judge's signature in Maryland (a suburb of Washington DC) is all that is necessary to seize .com/org/net domains anywhere in the world. It's a fait accomplit against a foreign company, they're less likely to fight back, and the precedent extends their authority.
  - literalusername 15y ago
    Normally, in cases like this, the law prohibits businesses from offering gambling services. In that case, no Americans would have broken any law. However, a quick google search strongly implies that sports betting is in fact legal in Maryland. http://www.legalgambling.net/is-sports-betting-legal-in/maryland.html http://www.legalgambling.net/is-sports-betting-legal-in/mary... Something is amiss. Edit: While the Rosenstein quote erroneously states that "Sports betting is illegal in Maryland", it seems more likely that this was actually a breach of the 1961 Federal Wire Act, which banned sports betting over the wire. If Bodog allowed bets to cross state lines, then they're involved in interstate commerce, so the Wire Act applies.
snowwrestler 15y ago
Perhaps my understanding is wrong, but I thought Verisign is the only registrar and operator for .com domains--other registrars like GoDaddy or this Canadian company simply resell Verisign registrations, which they get at a wholesale price.
- tomp 15y ago
  It is wrong. There are many registrars, but Verisign is the registry (i.e. where the records are stored).
  - snowwrestler 15y ago
    Thanks.
Shivetya 15y ago
Technology out grew the nation state model. Look at the long arm of the IRS and how the US uses pressure on other countries to comply with it. The nation states are going to do their best to reign the freedom technology provides back in.
shingen 15y ago
What they meant to say is: we don't believe anyone on earth is outside our jurisdiction.
- JsonCulverhouse 15y ago
  Isn't this standard "Long arm jurisdiction"? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_arm_jurisdiction http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_arm_jurisdiction
  - pygy_ 15y ago
    As described in the Wikipedia article, the arm doesn't get past the US border, only across states jurisdictions.
    - JsonCulverhouse 15y ago
      The Patriot Act extends this outside of the borders go the US with respect to financial transactions. Although not directly related, the Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Sovereign_Immunities_Actdefines http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Sovereign_Immunities_Ac... who is immune from prosecution and that it doesn't apply to individuals. It's going to be up to them to prove that they are "immune".
freejack 15y ago
Verisign added NS records to the .com zone servers, not to the root. The root has very little in it, basically just pointers to the TLD zone servers...

by lhnn 15y ago

raganwald 15y ago

Are they saying that an English company (where sports betting is legal) taking bets from English punters is running afoul of Maryland law? I doubt it. What they are saying is that doing business with American citizens is subject to American laws. EDIT: An interesting read... http://www.vegassportsmasters.com/?q=article/feds-arrest-english-shore-bookmaker-del-mar-begins-67th-season http://www.vegassportsmasters.com/?q=article/feds-arrest-eng...

MatthewPhillips 15y ago
Which is also ridiculous. American citizens are subject to American laws; the person making the bet.
pbhjpbhj 15y ago
>Are they saying that an English company (where sports betting is legal) taking bets from English punters is running afoul of Maryland law? // Didn't Britain just extradite (or at least accede to an extradition 'request') a young man to the US for operating a service providing media links (but apparently no copyright material) - where it's likely that his actions were wholly legal under English law and he never set foot outside of the country ... Seems like USA has their way regardless of other peoples democracy. -- http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9013408/Student-who-created-illegal-TV-shack-website-to-be-extradited-to-US.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9013408/Student...
- raganwald 15y ago
  Ow, you touched a sore spot, we Canadians did exactly the same thing by extraditing a fellow who was selling grass seeds by mail to US citizens. Strangely (sarcasm intended), we have refused such requests for the operators of online pharmacies, who employ a lot of people and generate sales for some big and influential Pharma companies in Canada.
  - cperciva 15y ago
    It's not strange at all: Canada extradites people if the actions they are accused of are crimes in Canada. Drug trafficking, for all that it generally isn't enforced in the case of marijuana, is illegal in Canada; so a Canadian accused of trafficking drugs into the US was extradited. Selling prescription medications to patients with proper prescriptions is legal in Canada.
    - bryanlarsen 15y ago
      But selling marijuana seeds is not (was not?) illegal in Canada.
      - cperciva 15y ago
        Viable marijuana seeds are included in Schedule II of the CDSA. The law isn't enforced, but it's still there.
        redthrowaway 15y ago
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled_Drugs_and_Substances_Act#Schedule_II http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled_Drugs_and_Substances... It appears that, while non-viable seeds are explicitly legal, there does not appear to be any prohibition against viable seeds, unless they are considered a marijuana "preparation". I suspect there's some case law floating around where a court has decided whether or not cannabis seeds are considered a marijuana preparation. Edit: Erowid is somewhat helpful in this regard, although the linked article is broken: http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_law.shtml http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_law.shtml
DanBC 15y ago
But why aren't they going after the Americans who are breaking American law, rather than the non-Americans who are just doing business? But see also this (someone else posted it on HN, but I can't remember who or where): (http://cphpost.dk/news/international/us-snubs-out-legal-cigar-transaction http://cphpost.dk/news/international/us-snubs-out-legal-ciga...)
- marshray 15y ago
  They could easily go after Americans, but then they'd having things like due process and trials by jury to worry about. Instead, DHS would rather set precedent that a judge's signature in Maryland (a suburb of Washington DC) is all that is necessary to seize .com/org/net domains anywhere in the world. It's a fait accomplit against a foreign company, they're less likely to fight back, and the precedent extends their authority.
- literalusername 15y ago
  Normally, in cases like this, the law prohibits businesses from offering gambling services. In that case, no Americans would have broken any law. However, a quick google search strongly implies that sports betting is in fact legal in Maryland. http://www.legalgambling.net/is-sports-betting-legal-in/maryland.html http://www.legalgambling.net/is-sports-betting-legal-in/mary... Something is amiss. Edit: While the Rosenstein quote erroneously states that "Sports betting is illegal in Maryland", it seems more likely that this was actually a breach of the 1961 Federal Wire Act, which banned sports betting over the wire. If Bodog allowed bets to cross state lines, then they're involved in interstate commerce, so the Wire Act applies.

snowwrestler 15y ago

Perhaps my understanding is wrong, but I thought Verisign is the only registrar and operator for .com domains--other registrars like GoDaddy or this Canadian company simply resell Verisign registrations, which they get at a wholesale price.

tomp 15y ago
It is wrong. There are many registrars, but Verisign is the registry (i.e. where the records are stored).
- snowwrestler 15y ago
  Thanks.

Shivetya 15y ago

Technology out grew the nation state model. Look at the long arm of the IRS and how the US uses pressure on other countries to comply with it. The nation states are going to do their best to reign the freedom technology provides back in.

shingen 15y ago

What they meant to say is: we don't believe anyone on earth is outside our jurisdiction.

JsonCulverhouse 15y ago
Isn't this standard "Long arm jurisdiction"? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_arm_jurisdiction http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_arm_jurisdiction
- pygy_ 15y ago
  As described in the Wikipedia article, the arm doesn't get past the US border, only across states jurisdictions.
  - JsonCulverhouse 15y ago
    The Patriot Act extends this outside of the borders go the US with respect to financial transactions. Although not directly related, the Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Sovereign_Immunities_Actdefines http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Sovereign_Immunities_Ac... who is immune from prosecution and that it doesn't apply to individuals. It's going to be up to them to prove that they are "immune".

freejack 15y ago

Verisign added NS records to the .com zone servers, not to the root. The root has very little in it, basically just pointers to the TLD zone servers...