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The best way to deal with this: install solar power on site to power the AC. Make zero (or low) interest loans available to pay for it; the power companies cou

The best way to deal with this: install solar power on site to power the AC. Make zero (or low) interest loans available to pay for it; the power companies could originate the loans and pay them back through the existing monthly payment system. Everybody wins: people get cheaper/sustainable power, the grid load is eased, and the utilities can make money handling the money.

JimtheCoder 3y ago
Do we have the materials and manufacturing capacity for a massive amount of solar panels right now? Installers?
- maerF0x0 3y ago
  > Installers I've long held that, at least in developed countries, we should be ending unemployment insurance and moving to guaranteed employment and utilizing unemployed folks for public service projects such as solar installs. Yes, of course not for disabled or high skilled folks who just need to transition. But for many many cases there's little reason to give someone hundreds per week for no work.
  - JimtheCoder 3y ago
    "we should be ending unemployment insurance and moving to guaranteed employment and utilizing unemployed folks for public service projects such as solar installs." While I agree with that, it seems the implementation of a program like that would be quite difficult...especially considering how difficult it is to get pretty much anything done. Are these new workers doing things that other union workers could be doing? Would they have to join the union? Those two simple things would derail any plan like that for one side of the isle in the US, at least.
    - maerF0x0 3y ago
      I agree politically it's a hard change. I'm just speaking about ideal policies at this point. Perhaps a wide retraining program offering. Something like "Hey you've been unemployed for 2 years, you're losing benefits starting (sometime). To help you along you can take a free solar installer course paid by the tax payer."
  - FpUser 3y ago
    >"utilizing unemployed folks for public service projects such as solar installs" And when suddenly there is not enough of them work for food people? This is how GULAG came to be.
    - maerF0x0 3y ago
      Ok, i guess I was unclear. By guaranteed work I simply meant that people had the choice still. Not forced slavery, but guaranteed optional work for pay, rather than paychecks for nothing. I'm thinking national projects like hoover dam and interstate highway systems.
      - JimtheCoder 3y ago
        "Not forced slavery" "hoover dam" Book Recommendation: The Profiteers: Bechtel and the Men Who Built the World https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/25814021-the-profiteers?from_search=true&from_srp=true&qid=f9AEfacbCY&rank=1 https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/25814021-the-profiteers?...
        maerF0x0 3y ago
        Thanks for the book recommendation. added to my list :)
      - tcmart14 3y ago
        I think a better way to word it is, "hey, are you having a hard time finding a job? If so, we will give you one for the time being." Which Germany kinda does this to my understanding. If your having difficulty finding a job, the state will help find at least a temporary gig for you in the mean time.
        maerF0x0 3y ago
        Yes, I like this. At least in my experiences in USA / Canada, there's a lot of actually able bodied folks, doing nothing for pay. Even if it's not worth the money, they could at least partially contribute to the work of society by something as tiny as being part of a street cleaning crew, being a volunteer worker with a not for profit etc. As i understand it having even a little work/contribution can help with holding off depression . It doesnt have to be 40hrs a week, but even a single day of work can help keep normalcy.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
oceanplexian 3y ago
Counterintuitively, this wouldn’t be that great for the grid. If millions of people stop paying monthly utility bills, electric utilities start to run in the red, or have to further raise rates while the grid further destabilizes. This is unfolding in real time in California and a few studies have come out showing that subsidized rooftop solar is doing more harm than good without utility-grade energy storage.
- acidburnNSA 3y ago
  At least the rich people will have power. And if their solar and batteries are down for a while, they'll likely also have their own personal Generac whole-house automatic diesel, gas, or propane generator. Individuals who can afford it will have reliable power.
  - FpUser 3y ago
    >"At least the rich people will have power." Phew. I am so relieved. Not a single day goes by when I do not think about how those poor riches manage.
  - EA-3167 3y ago
    I snagged a Generac a few years ago, and never looked back; it runs off my gas line and takes zero input from me to work (although you can fiddle with it if you like). That's definitely where anyone with any money at all is going to end up, not just the rich.
    - acidburnNSA 3y ago
      I want a propane one myself so it works hopefully even after a modest earthquake
      - EA-3167 3y ago
        Oh yeah, if I lived in a seismically active region I'd have gone that route as well.
- 3y ago
Rebelgecko 3y ago
In California, power companies are trying hard to disincentivize solar. The worst time for the grid is when the sun starts going down but people are still running AC/laundry/dishwashers. Solar setups just generate power at the times when it's least needed, and utilities haven't built up enough battery capacity to take advantage of it for later. Another thing we saw with some utilities is that they had to raise rates during the drought to cover their costs. People were so good at reducing their water consumption that the utilities were having trouble covering their large fixed costs. It'll be interesting to see how things go once California implements the income-based fixed electric billing in the next few years.
- dylan604 3y ago
  >utilities haven't built up enough battery capacity to take advantage of it for later. After Tesla was able to supply a battery pack to the city in Australia after a Twitter bet, I'm really surprised that more storage has not been installed everywhere. Maybe I stopped paying attention to the story too soon, but did this battery buffer not fix the problem?
  - nradov 3y ago
    Battery storage remains constrained by cell availability. There is no spare capacity and it can only be scaled up slowly due to supply chain issues. The battery storage that Tesla sold to Australia is a step in the right direction but capacity is only a tiny fraction of what we would need in the USA to enable a large scale transition to renewable energy. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/08/australia-switches-on-victoria-big-battery-powered-by-tesla-megapacks.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/08/australia-switches-on-victor...
  - Rebelgecko 3y ago
    The California grid operator has a really cool website that shows realtime-ish graphs of supply and demand[1] and even daily battery reports[2]. One big takeaway is that the total battery capacity is kinda wimpy when you compare it to how much fossil fuel the state burns over the day. The way net metering worked in the past is that people with solar could offload their access generation to power companies and make storage or resale the utility's responsibility. Then 2.0 was a sorta-time of use implementation, and now we're up to Net Metering 3.0 and I haven't bothered to look into how that works. However people I know who have looked into Tesla powerwalls haven't found them to be economical for individual homeowners. [1]: https://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/supply.html https://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/supply.html [2]: http://www.caiso.com/Documents/DailyEnergyStorageReportJun22-2023.html http://www.caiso.com/Documents/DailyEnergyStorageReportJun22...
kayodelycaon 3y ago
Do they made solar panels that aren't affected by clouds or trees?

JimtheCoder 3y ago

Do we have the materials and manufacturing capacity for a massive amount of solar panels right now? Installers?

maerF0x0 3y ago
> Installers I've long held that, at least in developed countries, we should be ending unemployment insurance and moving to guaranteed employment and utilizing unemployed folks for public service projects such as solar installs. Yes, of course not for disabled or high skilled folks who just need to transition. But for many many cases there's little reason to give someone hundreds per week for no work.
- JimtheCoder 3y ago
  "we should be ending unemployment insurance and moving to guaranteed employment and utilizing unemployed folks for public service projects such as solar installs." While I agree with that, it seems the implementation of a program like that would be quite difficult...especially considering how difficult it is to get pretty much anything done. Are these new workers doing things that other union workers could be doing? Would they have to join the union? Those two simple things would derail any plan like that for one side of the isle in the US, at least.
  - maerF0x0 3y ago
    I agree politically it's a hard change. I'm just speaking about ideal policies at this point. Perhaps a wide retraining program offering. Something like "Hey you've been unemployed for 2 years, you're losing benefits starting (sometime). To help you along you can take a free solar installer course paid by the tax payer."
- FpUser 3y ago
  >"utilizing unemployed folks for public service projects such as solar installs" And when suddenly there is not enough of them work for food people? This is how GULAG came to be.
  - maerF0x0 3y ago
    Ok, i guess I was unclear. By guaranteed work I simply meant that people had the choice still. Not forced slavery, but guaranteed optional work for pay, rather than paychecks for nothing. I'm thinking national projects like hoover dam and interstate highway systems.
    - JimtheCoder 3y ago
      "Not forced slavery" "hoover dam" Book Recommendation: The Profiteers: Bechtel and the Men Who Built the World https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/25814021-the-profiteers?from_search=true&from_srp=true&qid=f9AEfacbCY&rank=1 https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/25814021-the-profiteers?...
      - maerF0x0 3y ago
        Thanks for the book recommendation. added to my list :)
    - tcmart14 3y ago
      I think a better way to word it is, "hey, are you having a hard time finding a job? If so, we will give you one for the time being." Which Germany kinda does this to my understanding. If your having difficulty finding a job, the state will help find at least a temporary gig for you in the mean time.
      - maerF0x0 3y ago
        Yes, I like this. At least in my experiences in USA / Canada, there's a lot of actually able bodied folks, doing nothing for pay. Even if it's not worth the money, they could at least partially contribute to the work of society by something as tiny as being part of a street cleaning crew, being a volunteer worker with a not for profit etc. As i understand it having even a little work/contribution can help with holding off depression . It doesnt have to be 40hrs a week, but even a single day of work can help keep normalcy.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

oceanplexian 3y ago

Counterintuitively, this wouldn’t be that great for the grid. If millions of people stop paying monthly utility bills, electric utilities start to run in the red, or have to further raise rates while the grid further destabilizes. This is unfolding in real time in California and a few studies have come out showing that subsidized rooftop solar is doing more harm than good without utility-grade energy storage.

acidburnNSA 3y ago
At least the rich people will have power. And if their solar and batteries are down for a while, they'll likely also have their own personal Generac whole-house automatic diesel, gas, or propane generator. Individuals who can afford it will have reliable power.
- FpUser 3y ago
  >"At least the rich people will have power." Phew. I am so relieved. Not a single day goes by when I do not think about how those poor riches manage.
- EA-3167 3y ago
  I snagged a Generac a few years ago, and never looked back; it runs off my gas line and takes zero input from me to work (although you can fiddle with it if you like). That's definitely where anyone with any money at all is going to end up, not just the rich.
  - acidburnNSA 3y ago
    I want a propane one myself so it works hopefully even after a modest earthquake
    - EA-3167 3y ago
      Oh yeah, if I lived in a seismically active region I'd have gone that route as well.
3y ago

Rebelgecko 3y ago

In California, power companies are trying hard to disincentivize solar. The worst time for the grid is when the sun starts going down but people are still running AC/laundry/dishwashers. Solar setups just generate power at the times when it's least needed, and utilities haven't built up enough battery capacity to take advantage of it for later. Another thing we saw with some utilities is that they had to raise rates during the drought to cover their costs. People were so good at reducing their water consumption that the utilities were having trouble covering their large fixed costs. It'll be interesting to see how things go once California implements the income-based fixed electric billing in the next few years.

dylan604 3y ago
>utilities haven't built up enough battery capacity to take advantage of it for later. After Tesla was able to supply a battery pack to the city in Australia after a Twitter bet, I'm really surprised that more storage has not been installed everywhere. Maybe I stopped paying attention to the story too soon, but did this battery buffer not fix the problem?
- nradov 3y ago
  Battery storage remains constrained by cell availability. There is no spare capacity and it can only be scaled up slowly due to supply chain issues. The battery storage that Tesla sold to Australia is a step in the right direction but capacity is only a tiny fraction of what we would need in the USA to enable a large scale transition to renewable energy. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/08/australia-switches-on-victoria-big-battery-powered-by-tesla-megapacks.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/08/australia-switches-on-victor...
- Rebelgecko 3y ago
  The California grid operator has a really cool website that shows realtime-ish graphs of supply and demand[1] and even daily battery reports[2]. One big takeaway is that the total battery capacity is kinda wimpy when you compare it to how much fossil fuel the state burns over the day. The way net metering worked in the past is that people with solar could offload their access generation to power companies and make storage or resale the utility's responsibility. Then 2.0 was a sorta-time of use implementation, and now we're up to Net Metering 3.0 and I haven't bothered to look into how that works. However people I know who have looked into Tesla powerwalls haven't found them to be economical for individual homeowners. [1]: https://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/supply.html https://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/supply.html [2]: http://www.caiso.com/Documents/DailyEnergyStorageReportJun22-2023.html http://www.caiso.com/Documents/DailyEnergyStorageReportJun22...

kayodelycaon 3y ago

Do they made solar panels that aren't affected by clouds or trees?