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Apple to Remove Nostr Damus from App Store for Bitcoin Tipping Feature
- ChampEzra 3y ago[dead]
- cjpearson 3y agoIt's hard to see this appeal going anywhere. The app store guidelines even explicitly mention this use case as one that requires in-app purchases to be used. > Apps may use in-app purchase currencies to enable customers to “tip” the developer or digital content providers in the app. Apple lists the limited scenarios where alternative purchase methods can be used and this one is not included. Since they mention it in the guidelines it's clearly something they are aware of. You may disagree with Apple's policy, but bigger companies have fought this battle and lost. Intentionally (or unintentionally) misreading the guidelines isn't going to hold water on appeal.
- danpalmer 3y agoYeah this case seems incredibly obvious, and I feel like any suggestion from the developer that they aren't violating the policies is disingenuous. Whether the policy is a good one or not is a fair question, but not one that App Store review will (or even can) answer, and trying to do anything there is barking up the wrong tree. The right place to challenge this sort of thing is likely with organisations like the FTC, Competition and Markets Authority, or the EU equivalent.
- kiwiidb 3y agoThe developer had a meeting with Apple representatives where they assured him that tipping profiles would be okay so he adjusted his app so people would tip profiles instead of posts. Then they still rejected the app.
- danpalmer 3y agoSure but reading the guidelines that Apple representative was clearly mistaken. Unless they said "we acknowledge what the guidelines say but they are incorrect", it just seems like poor developer relations comms (from Apple, never!). I can't find the bit from the dev you're referring to so don't know if they have screenshots of it in writing or something, however, what I suspect is more likely (based on my experience talking to Apple reps about similar things) is that they gave a very charitable description of their feature, and the rep gave a non-committal "sounds like it could pass, try submitting it". I don't get why the developer is so convinced that their tip system for tipping people based on their activity on their app is not tipping for "digital content". Unless you can only tip randomly with no control over who it goes to, or tipping is for the user's activity off-app, digital content (i.e. posts etc) are literally the only thing you could be tipping for.
- jacquesm 3y agoThe Apple representative may have been mistaken, but they did represent Apple and as such have very clearly overruled the guidelines. It should have ended there. The degree to which people will twist themselves into pretzels to defend mega-corps is something I find hard to understand, for this guy it is their life line and for Apple it is a non-issue. Apple doesn't get to hide behind their own guidelines if even their own representatives don't know them well enough to adequately represent the company.
- TillE 3y agoIt's unfortunate confusion, but a mistake from an employee is not a policy commitment. If Tim Cook said it, sure, but a low-level "representative" is just someone doing a job.
- jacquesm 3y agoLegally speaking this is incorrect. The company can delegate people to interact with the outside world and those people have the ability to bind the company. If they mess up beyond their pay grade then the company may have recourse on them but the company may well still be bound externally. You still have to check if the functionary is an 'authorized agent' but if they misrepresent themselves as such then the company may well have a problem if you had no reason to believe otherwise (for instance: because of their job title or because someone with signing authority delegated the interaction with you). Such 'apparent authority' (of which this may well be a case) is the source of much confusion and many lawsuits.
- enragedcacti 3y agoThe actual policy at issue is tucked away in the "Other Business Model Issues" section and uses the term "monetary gift" instead of tip: > (vii) Apps may enable individual users to give a monetary gift to another individual without using in-app purchase, provided that (a) the gift is a completely optional choice by the giver, and (b) 100% of the funds go to the receiver of the gift. However, a gift that is connected to or associated at any point in time with receiving digital content or services must use in-app purchase.
- enragedcacti 3y agoI don't think the section you quote tells the whole story > If you want to unlock features or functionality within your app, (by way of example: subscriptions, in-game currencies, game levels, access to premium content, or unlocking a full version), you must use in-app purchase. > Apps may use in-app purchase currencies to enable customers to “tip” the developer or digital content providers in the app. Using "must" for unlocking features and "may" for tipping is pretty odd if they need to be treated identically. This is especially clear if you look later in the document where an almost identical phrasing is used in the other direction: > If your app enables the purchase of real-time person-to-person services between two individuals you may use purchase methods other than in-app purchase to collect those payments. > If your app enables people to purchase physical goods or services that will be consumed outside of the app, you must use purchase methods other than in-app purchase to collect those payments Certainly the person-to-person transactions aren't required to use purchase methods other than in-app purchase despite the use of "may" in the same context. This section could probably invalidate it although its extremely confusing because only "reader" apps (3.1.3(a)) are allowed to direct to other purchasing methods but physical goods apps are required not to use IAP. How would they avoid using IAP if they can't direct to other mechanisms? > Apps and their metadata may not include buttons, external links, or other calls to action that direct customers to purchasing mechanisms other than in-app purchase, except as set forth in 3.1.3(a).
- cjpearson 3y agoYes, I think their phrasing in that sentence is vague. It should be structured like the functionality one to make clear that tipping _may_ be added, but if implemented it _must_ use in-app purchases. However, since tipping is not listed in the exceptions, one should read it as not being allowed.
- enragedcacti 3y agoAgreed, from historical context it definitely seems like the intention was confirming for developers that tipping is a valid use case for IAP and not creating an exemption, but I can see why a motivated party would read it differently, and it is made even more confusing by the App Store review notice seemingly acknowledging that some tips are exempt.
- hummer_embark 3y ago[dead]
- cypress66 3y agoI can't believe the EU, which has fined Microsoft because of having IE as the default browser, is OK with Apple having a total walled garden in iOS. Which by the way only has one "browser", because other browsers are forced to use the safari engine.
- lapcat 3y ago> I can't believe the EU, which has fined Microsoft because of having IE as the default browser, is OK with Apple having a total walled garden in iOS. They aren't ok with it. The EU recently passed the Digital Markets Act. But some of the provisions don't take effect until 2024.
- delfinom 3y ago[flagged]
- geodel 3y agoUS companies are not allowed to buy EU.
- mchannon 3y agoHilarious. Countries aren’t allowed to invade each other. Also, crime is not allowed.
- evandale 3y agoI don't know why this is flagged. Saying "US companies are not allowed to buy EU" is lower quality IMO. Not being allowed to do things has never stopped people from doing things and it isn't adding to the discussion. At least this comment is pointing out how ridiculous it is to say something isn't allowed as a justification for why it will never happen.
- tinus_hn 3y ago
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- siwatanejo 3y agohttps://twitter.com/siwatanejo/status/1668585129374289925 https://twitter.com/siwatanejo/status/1668585129374289925
- colesantiago 3y agoThe only issue with this is: > I like crypto but think 99.999% of NFTs are scams It is more like 100% are scams, there is no NFT use case, it's all just jpgs.
- DennisP 3y agoTechnically ENS names are NFTs, I'd say that's a non-scam use case equivalent to domain names.
- siwatanejo 3y agoNail on the head, I think ENS/BNS entries are the only NFTs that are not scams, because they have utility.
- yieldcrv 3y agoInsurance coverage are NFTs, and liquidity pool records are NFTs there are other financials using that technology
- siwatanejo 3y agoI didn’t say there aren’t? What I said is that the domains are the only ones that are not scams.
- yieldcrv 3y agookay. I don't consider the financials to be scams and I thought you were talking about things distinct from visual collectibles. I find high utility in the financials.
- colesantiago 3y agoCan't they just remove or ban anything cryptocurrency and Bitcoin? That would be fantastic as it has no place on the App Store.
- kayamon 3y agoGlad you're not in charge of the App Store, going around banning any apps you don't like.
- Sargos 3y agoThe people actually in charge of the App Store don't seem much better
- sunshinerag 3y agoWhy? Are you pro authoritarian censoring of ideas that you don’t like?
- timeon 3y agoIs this loaded question relevant here?
- whywhywhywhy 3y agoConsidering the App Store is 99% adwall trash and subscription scam apps I’d say if you hate Bitcoin you’d have to admit it’s right at home with the rest of the content there.
- tossl568 3y agoAnything else you want banned just because you don't like it authoritarian? If you don't like it just don't use it. You're financially privileged, just stick to your transactions your bank let you do and let other people do what they want.
- mikhael28 3y agoThe problem with letting people do what they want, is that you will inevitably have bad actors ruining things for the rest of us. That's where regulation comes in, where government comes in, where centralization comes in. Do you seriously believe, that if Bitcoin becomes the global currency, that crime won't skyrocket due to people getting robbed relentlessly? You just need the PK dawg, and it's very easy to tell if you were told the truth - access to the wallet opens up. I think you are just naive about the nature of mankind. We need rules, structure and order - the key question, is how do we create the environment that allows enough structure to not interfere with the creative process to allow us to continue growing and developing new technology? Bitcoiners have a sad, yet fascinating trend to talk about nothing but Bitcoin. Take a look at your comment history.
- lovvtide 3y agoPlenty of web clients to choose from in the meantime https://satellite.earth https://satellite.earth https://primal.net https://primal.net https://iris.to https://iris.to https://snort.social https://snort.social https://app.coracle.social https://app.coracle.social
- 300bps 3y agoNostr Damus definitely should've been able to predict something like this.
- m3kw9 3y agoHe should have seen it coming.
- RATML 3y agoImagine doing all that work to just hinge your fate on the least open, least aligned platform to your app's and app protocol's declared raison d'être. Do these people really believe that the cypherpunk ethos involves being an Apple bootlicker? I don't get it.
- photonerd 3y agoI mean anyone who would work on or with a google platform certainly isn’t. They’re the least cypherpunk, most bland and corporate, evil tech corp I can think of that makes consumer hardware outside of MAYBE Meta.
- api 3y agoIt'd be nice if there were a Linux laptop option that didn't sound like a jet engine taking off every time you do anything serious with it.
- photonerd 3y agoIronically, the best Linux laptop I’ve ever had was an old MacBook.
- 7v3x3n3sem9vv 3y agowith Google you at least have the option to de-google with graphene or lineage. no open source alternatives on Apple mobile hardware.
- photonerd 3y agoYou do. Yes, and lots of things wont work without the Play store (and its subsystems) but you can. It’s nice that it’s an option, I agree. That’s not really cypherpunk tho, is it?
- lawn 3y agoWith Google you can sideload apps, use F-Droid or go for Lineage or Graphene. So targeting Android makes much more sense than targeting iOS in this respect.
- rcoder 3y agoChoose one: 1. Full-on libre: speech, financial flows, technical architecture, etc. (i.e., basically the entire raison d'être for Nostr) -or- 2. Live and work inside the walled garden of Apple + Google's app stores You really can't have it both ways.
- Pulcinella 3y agoI’m happy with the one that doesn’t allow crypto crap. Also free speech is a practical impossibility. Standard email is a free as it gets and it turns out nobody wants that because if you have completely free speech your inbox gets spammed into oblivion. Everyone draws the line somewhere.
- josephcsible 3y agoFirst they came for the crypto crap, and I did not speak out ... Then they came for me. And with email, the recipient can choose to override the spam filter. That's key, and is the reason that spam filters aren't censorship.
- Pulcinella 3y agoFirst they came for the spam emails, and I did not speak out because I was not a spammer. Then they came for the crypto crap, and I did not speak out because I didn’t want that crap. Then they came for the NFTs, and I did not speak out because I was not an NFT bro. Then they came for the weekly trash pickup, and I said thank you.
- max_ 3y agoThis is exactly why we need a new paradigm of Smart Phones that isn't based on iOS or Android. I would really want to see a Crypto Anarchist focused mobile phone.
- fsflover 3y agoGNU/Linux phones are already here. Sent from my Librem 5.
- Gareth321 3y agoApple making sure everyone in the EU moves away from the App Store when the DMA comes into effect early next year.
- m3kw9 3y agoAnd? This is as expected as you can get, Apple does not allow you to by pass them for payment. Next thing you know, the dev will have a rule on its website enabling certain features once you tipped, Apple isn’t gonna wait till that happens
- rabuse 3y agoTwo words. Web apps.
- dkobia 3y agoRegulatory oversight in addition to Apple looking for its cut is a good reason why this would have been blocked anyway. Few things out there are more regulated than the transfer of money, something the crypto economy is desperately trying to avoid.
- croes 3y agoIt's pretty simple. If anybody gets money on an Apple device, Apple wants its cut. Nobody makes money without giving Don Cook his share.
- mwcremer 3y agoDid you mean Tim Apple?
- tough 3y agoHopefully this will bring the EU to put Apple onto it's lane with this 30% mafia nonsense
- friend_and_foe 3y agoThis is what happens when you give a single company monopoly over your computing. I know there's a lot of apple fans around here, but I think it's largely social proof, apple products are jewelry in my eyes. Why anyone would develop for such an unpredicrably restrictive platform is beyond me. Apple is just too controlled for my taste. If I developed mobile apps I wouldn't even try to build an iPhone version.
- user6723 3y agoImagine using an OS where other men get to choose what software you are "allowed" to run. Might as well let someone else have sex with your wife while you're at it.
- NoelWilson51 3y ago[dead]