6 ms·

Ex-FBI employee jailed for mishandling classified material

70 points by CoBE10 3y ago

ARandomerDude 3y ago
When I worked in a SCIF, we had people who inspected what we brought in and out. I always assumed this was standard practice. I must be wrong.
- sota4077 3y ago
  It maybe was when you were there. But just look at how almost all aspects of our government work today and how dysfunctional it all is. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see that standards have dropped or people just do not care anymore.
  - wolverine876 3y ago
    Do you have any hard evidence that it's changed or that it's disfunctional relative to other large organizations?
    - Finnucane 3y ago
      Overclassification has been a problem for years. Every year, millions of classified documents are generated--not all of it top-secret, scif-class stuff, but still restricted. Which makes the job of keeping tabs on all of it difficult. It is arguable that too many people have classification authority, and that a lot of material is classified for categorical reasons but have no real security meaning.
      - QuarterReptile 3y ago
        Oh, definitely. For anyone who hasn't been, you should really see the meme folders wasting space on these resources.
- moron4hire 3y ago
  This is generally true, but there is the human factor of people getting lax. You would think something as simple as passive RFID stickers on all documents could be done to automatically scan as you go in and out of doors, but there is such a huge "nothing wireless, ever!" bias that the whole system is going to be stuck in error-prone human controls forever.
  - gpm 3y ago
    Presumably "nothing wireless, ever" makes it much easier to detect malicious wireless devices...
  - stubybubs 3y ago
    I could see legitimate risk with RFID tags. One of the tools sigint uses is simply the volume of transmissions going from one point to another. You can wrap tagged documents in RF blocking covers but eventually you'll have to unwrap them to view. You might even be able to infer the kinds of documents being moved if you track routes. White House to DoE etc. Sounds far-fetched but there have been some pretty wild methods lately about timing screen flashes to determine hash creation and stuff like that. Nothing is too far-fetched to intelligence gathering.
  - wolverine876 3y ago
    When you have secrets that affect the fate of humanity, freedom, your country, and millions or possibly billions of lives, it seems reasonable to not broadcast any information.
- lesuorac 3y ago
  There are some 1-person SCIFs. Not every SCIF is a multi-story black tint'd cube.
adolph 3y ago
[flagged]
- distortionfield 3y ago
  This is precisely what a certain presidential candidate wants you to think, they want you to be completely disillusioned with the system and assume it's beyond replacement, but in reality it's not that muddy and cases involving mishandling documents are routinely successfully tried.
  - zozbot234 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - ahiknsr 3y ago
      https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/cummings-jared-kushner-and-ivanka-trumps-private-emails-texts-raise-security-concerns https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/cummings-jared-kushner... like this?
    - oneplane 3y ago
      You conflate malice with sloppiness. Out of the American government people there were at least 4 high-profile cases in which 3 of the perps were transparent and compliant, and one wasn't. It does make a significant difference. Trying to make secured email as significant as physically moving many boxes with many documents many times on purpose is a bad flame bait on your part.
      - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        Would also note that “sensitive” and SCIF classified are miles apart in terms of legal treatment.
    - wredue 3y ago
      The “whataboutism” that’s a standard “defence”, because you believe that people who support clinton must also believe she is above the law, as you believe a different certain candidate is above the law. Nobody believes that. Charges were not laid against Clinton for a myriad of reasons that do not apply to the other candidate. There is no “whatabout”. A current certain presidential candidate wilfully sold classified secrets to another country. That didn’t happen on the other candidates email server.
qingcharles 3y ago
It sounds like something suspicious was going on with this person, but it could also be completely innocent and the person just wanted to work from home. They mention calls were made from her to suspicious people, but that the employee would not reveal the nature of the calls or who they were to - I guess they invoked their Fifth Amendment privilege, but you can do that and be totally innocent - it is your right not to speak to the investigators once you are in their custody, even if you have nothing to hide. I'm guessing the severity of the sentence though was based on the fact the FBI could never figure out the whole picture, as it seems long for a situation where it was never shown that the information was shared with anyone. Unlike with the Trump case where it is claimed he showed some of the documents to friends and associates. So, if Trump does get convicted I'm sure cases like the one above will be cited to try and increase the severity of his sentence. It would be unreal to see a former President in a federal prison camp.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
  You can't innocently take classified documents home.
  - mynameishere 3y ago
    Can you innocently store them with your Corvette?
    - AnimalMuppet 3y ago
      When I got my clearance, it was made very clear to me: If I take them home or store them with my Corvette or have them on my email server, I'm going to jail.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
        If you're POTUS or authorized by the POTUS things are different since they are the classification authority.
HumblyTossed 3y ago
Doesn't bode well for other people who may be in trouble for similar.
- PM_me_your_math 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - barbariangrunge 3y ago
    There's more than two tiers to the justice system. Poor people basically have no access to it at all: they can't afford the lawyers to stand up for their rights. Poor people are also disproportionately punished for the same crimes that a middle-class person might also commit. And middle class people go to jail for things that executives get away with all the time, and CEOs are untouchable. Elected politicians seem to get the best treatment though I mean, what if an indie developer wants to challenge some major platform? They'll go bankrupt before the case even gets to court, and an indie developer has way more money available than a typical lower-class poor person
  - Caligatio 3y ago
    Or Pence? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Pence_classified_documents_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Pence_classified_document... It's apparently a problem for many high ranking government officials. The differentiator is what one does when it's discovered.
    - HumblyTossed 3y ago
      > The differentiator is what one does when it's discovered. This is the point that many, so so many, either miss or refuse to see.
      - lliamander 3y ago
        The key difference is that Trump, as president, was the ultimate authority on what documents are his personal documents. Any documents that he took with him are presumed personal - and that legal precedent was established with Bill Clinton[1]. Consider too that no executive branch agency can have authority over the president - that would be violation of Article 2 of the constitution. The only legal option route for legal punishing a president requires impeachment first. [1] https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/aug/22/tapes-stored-bill-clintons-sock-drawer-could-affec/ https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/aug/22/tapes-store...
toomuchtodo 3y ago
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/former-fbi-analyst-sentenced-retaining-classified-documents https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/former-fbi-analyst-sentenced-...
voytec 3y ago
What about ex-president?
tomohawk 3y ago
[flagged]
hsjqllzlfkf 3y ago
> The DoJ said it's been unable to figure out why those calls were placed, and that Kingsbury declined to share any details. This person shouldn't get only 46 months. Am I crazy?

70 points by CoBE10 3y ago

When I worked in a SCIF, we had people who inspected what we brought in and out. I always assumed this was standard practice. I must be wrong.

sota4077 3y ago
It maybe was when you were there. But just look at how almost all aspects of our government work today and how dysfunctional it all is. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see that standards have dropped or people just do not care anymore.
- wolverine876 3y ago
  Do you have any hard evidence that it's changed or that it's disfunctional relative to other large organizations?
  - Finnucane 3y ago
    Overclassification has been a problem for years. Every year, millions of classified documents are generated--not all of it top-secret, scif-class stuff, but still restricted. Which makes the job of keeping tabs on all of it difficult. It is arguable that too many people have classification authority, and that a lot of material is classified for categorical reasons but have no real security meaning.
    - QuarterReptile 3y ago
      Oh, definitely. For anyone who hasn't been, you should really see the meme folders wasting space on these resources.
moron4hire 3y ago
This is generally true, but there is the human factor of people getting lax. You would think something as simple as passive RFID stickers on all documents could be done to automatically scan as you go in and out of doors, but there is such a huge "nothing wireless, ever!" bias that the whole system is going to be stuck in error-prone human controls forever.
- gpm 3y ago
  Presumably "nothing wireless, ever" makes it much easier to detect malicious wireless devices...
- stubybubs 3y ago
  I could see legitimate risk with RFID tags. One of the tools sigint uses is simply the volume of transmissions going from one point to another. You can wrap tagged documents in RF blocking covers but eventually you'll have to unwrap them to view. You might even be able to infer the kinds of documents being moved if you track routes. White House to DoE etc. Sounds far-fetched but there have been some pretty wild methods lately about timing screen flashes to determine hash creation and stuff like that. Nothing is too far-fetched to intelligence gathering.
- wolverine876 3y ago
  When you have secrets that affect the fate of humanity, freedom, your country, and millions or possibly billions of lives, it seems reasonable to not broadcast any information.
lesuorac 3y ago
There are some 1-person SCIFs. Not every SCIF is a multi-story black tint'd cube.

adolph 3y ago

[flagged]

distortionfield 3y ago
This is precisely what a certain presidential candidate wants you to think, they want you to be completely disillusioned with the system and assume it's beyond replacement, but in reality it's not that muddy and cases involving mishandling documents are routinely successfully tried.
- zozbot234 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - ahiknsr 3y ago
    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/cummings-jared-kushner-and-ivanka-trumps-private-emails-texts-raise-security-concerns https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/cummings-jared-kushner... like this?
  - oneplane 3y ago
    You conflate malice with sloppiness. Out of the American government people there were at least 4 high-profile cases in which 3 of the perps were transparent and compliant, and one wasn't. It does make a significant difference. Trying to make secured email as significant as physically moving many boxes with many documents many times on purpose is a bad flame bait on your part.
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
      Would also note that “sensitive” and SCIF classified are miles apart in terms of legal treatment.
  - wredue 3y ago
    The “whataboutism” that’s a standard “defence”, because you believe that people who support clinton must also believe she is above the law, as you believe a different certain candidate is above the law. Nobody believes that. Charges were not laid against Clinton for a myriad of reasons that do not apply to the other candidate. There is no “whatabout”. A current certain presidential candidate wilfully sold classified secrets to another country. That didn’t happen on the other candidates email server.

qingcharles 3y ago

It sounds like something suspicious was going on with this person, but it could also be completely innocent and the person just wanted to work from home. They mention calls were made from her to suspicious people, but that the employee would not reveal the nature of the calls or who they were to - I guess they invoked their Fifth Amendment privilege, but you can do that and be totally innocent - it is your right not to speak to the investigators once you are in their custody, even if you have nothing to hide. I'm guessing the severity of the sentence though was based on the fact the FBI could never figure out the whole picture, as it seems long for a situation where it was never shown that the information was shared with anyone. Unlike with the Trump case where it is claimed he showed some of the documents to friends and associates. So, if Trump does get convicted I'm sure cases like the one above will be cited to try and increase the severity of his sentence. It would be unreal to see a former President in a federal prison camp.

2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
You can't innocently take classified documents home.
- mynameishere 3y ago
  Can you innocently store them with your Corvette?
  - AnimalMuppet 3y ago
    When I got my clearance, it was made very clear to me: If I take them home or store them with my Corvette or have them on my email server, I'm going to jail.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
      If you're POTUS or authorized by the POTUS things are different since they are the classification authority.

HumblyTossed 3y ago

Doesn't bode well for other people who may be in trouble for similar.

PM_me_your_math 3y ago
[flagged]
- barbariangrunge 3y ago
  There's more than two tiers to the justice system. Poor people basically have no access to it at all: they can't afford the lawyers to stand up for their rights. Poor people are also disproportionately punished for the same crimes that a middle-class person might also commit. And middle class people go to jail for things that executives get away with all the time, and CEOs are untouchable. Elected politicians seem to get the best treatment though I mean, what if an indie developer wants to challenge some major platform? They'll go bankrupt before the case even gets to court, and an indie developer has way more money available than a typical lower-class poor person
- Caligatio 3y ago
  Or Pence? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Pence_classified_documents_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Pence_classified_document... It's apparently a problem for many high ranking government officials. The differentiator is what one does when it's discovered.
  - HumblyTossed 3y ago
    > The differentiator is what one does when it's discovered. This is the point that many, so so many, either miss or refuse to see.
    - lliamander 3y ago
      The key difference is that Trump, as president, was the ultimate authority on what documents are his personal documents. Any documents that he took with him are presumed personal - and that legal precedent was established with Bill Clinton[1]. Consider too that no executive branch agency can have authority over the president - that would be violation of Article 2 of the constitution. The only legal option route for legal punishing a president requires impeachment first. [1] https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/aug/22/tapes-stored-bill-clintons-sock-drawer-could-affec/ https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/aug/22/tapes-store...

toomuchtodo 3y ago

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/former-fbi-analyst-sentenced-retaining-classified-documents https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/former-fbi-analyst-sentenced-...

voytec 3y ago

What about ex-president?

tomohawk 3y ago

[flagged]

hsjqllzlfkf 3y ago

> The DoJ said it's been unable to figure out why those calls were placed, and that Kingsbury declined to share any details. This person shouldn't get only 46 months. Am I crazy?