5 ms·

Highlight: Coconut oil DID NOT cause the changes outlined in the study. As an aside, BC Melnik has multiple studies published proving that pasteurized milk cau

Highlight: Coconut oil DID NOT cause the changes outlined in the study. As an aside, BC Melnik has multiple studies published proving that pasteurized milk causes direct delivery of bovine DNA into human cells. And he has been proving this since 2009 in MANY published papers. STOP DRINKING MILK unless it is UHT or highly fermented (yogurt). https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19232475/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19232475/

mint2 3y ago
Irish history shows that milk does not cause modern western dietary diseases. For a long time dairy was a highly prominent component of diet, far more than today. And in American milk consumption has plummeted since the 70’s, these disease have done the opposite. skepticism is required.
- sitkack 3y ago
  Is your argument that Irish people still exist, so cow milk is safe?
  - mint2 3y ago
    No, that would be a highly contrived straw man reading of what I said. Can we not do that? my argument is that while Irish people did suffer a lot of diseases over the millennia that dairy was a major component of their diet, those diseases were not the modern ones and definitely not in the same prevalence. Ergo I’m skeptical of a claim that dairy is causing many of the common modern western diseases such as that paper claims. If it were a cause, type 2 diabetes and all the others would have been rampant historically. Additionally, as I also noted, since America’s milk consumption has plummeted while the diseases have skyrocketed it’s a bit perplexing to conclude milk could be a significant factor. The trends simply do not add up. Finland has the highest milk consumptions and also one of the highest life expectancies. higher than the US. Seems a little odd if milk is supposedly causing disease. Hence I’m skeptical. The trends do not add up.
    - shortcake27 3y ago
      Conversely, it's equally as perplexing to conclude that milk does not cause any of these diseases because there exists an inverse relationship between milk consumption and rate of incidence over time. Correlation does not equal causation, and is especially irrelevant when comparing different countries in different time periods for diseases that are known to have multiple causes. I can't vouch for the study as I haven't read it, but it's quite reductive to dismiss what appears to be a comprehensive study mainly focused on biological pathways because there happens to be a negative correlation between Irish people drinking milk and rates of modern disease.
      - mint2 3y ago
        Okay fine, let’s go willy nilly spread nutrition advice based on stretched conclusions from limited studies because diet advice totally doesn’t have a history of misinterpretation and trends later found to be wrong. Let’s upend diets on this latest fad of studies! No matter that both historical and modern trends raise questions about the conclusion, let’s upend people diets! Happy now? P.s. Also skeptical doesn’t mean that something isn’t possible. Just a word to the wise.
        orangepurple 3y ago
        I should have posted his follow up study which demonstrates the transfer of genetic material from milk and its effects into human cells. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.2147/CCID.S69135 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.2147/CCID.S69135
        mint2 3y ago
        An article that further highlights the point I made - they site some groups getting more acne when adapting a “wester diet” (not just milk), and fail to address all the easily found counter examples rested to dairy. But that paper is only 1/3 about milk, it also cites high glycemic index carbs and saturated fats as being causes. Health issues around low fiber high glycemic carbs is not a new or novel claim Going back to the ethnic groups it cites as seeing increased acne with adoption of “western” diets. It’s not a surprise or novel finding that a diet of ultra processed high glycemic low fiber and all the other issues with the convenience food diet causes health issues. It is interesting they cite a group known for lactose intolerance and blame dairy. They cite one disease as creating a natural experiment, and yet don’t mention lactose intolerance. And this new paper is just about acne, not the wide range of modern afflictions mentioned before. Dairy very well could have negative impacts, but it also could be the next aluminum or eggs. I’m not going to argue with eating less refined carbs and sugars and eating more vegetables. That’s well supported advice. Latching onto select dietary papers and then extrapolating to broad conclusions is a hallmark of what’s wrong with how the media and people understand nutrition science.
vintagedave 3y ago
Is BC Melnik related to this study? I’m unsure of the relation to this article. Followup: how good are those studies? From that link I can’t determine their research institute and without a background in this area I have no way to evaluate the claims.
- orangepurple 3y ago
  He is funded by German government grants (he is affiliated with a University) and not by industry. Disclosure: The author reports no conflict of interest in this work.
superb_dev 3y ago
> pasteurized milk causes direct delivery of bovine DNA into human cells. Oh god, the milk is turning us into cows!
- carlmr 3y ago
  I want some Belgian Blue milk now.
  - justinclift 3y ago
    Sounds like bull. ;)
petre 3y ago
Are you speaking on behalf of the UHT milk industry? UHT milk is so processed it's not even milk anymore. Milk with 1 year shelf life? No thanx.
- gruez 3y ago
  >UHT milk is so processed it's not even milk anymore. Milk with 1 year shelf life? No thanx. What specific characteristics of UHT milk makes it "not even milk anymore"? 1 year shelf life doesn't really count, unless you specifically care about milk spoiling within a certain amount of time.
  - petre 3y ago
    It's just like steak made with the flamethrower. Unlimited shelf life because it's basically charcoal. Spoiled milk = youghurt made with the wrong kind of bacteria. UHT milk does not spoil like pasteurized milk because not even lactobacteria bothers with it. I'd rather drink homemade rice milk. At least that one is prone to alcoholic fermentation.
soligern 3y ago
Plenty of cultures around the world have subsisted almost entirely on a dairy based diet for thousands of years at this point.
jryb 3y ago
You digest any DNA (and RNA) you eat. The pancreas creates nucleases specifically for this purpose. Why Pubmed even indexes this journal is beyond me.
- orangepurple 3y ago
  I should have posted his follow up study which demonstrates the transfer of genetic material from milk and its effects within human cells. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.2147/CCID.S69135 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.2147/CCID.S69135
  - jryb 3y ago
    The claims here are just that microRNAs are delivered, not DNA, and that these change gene expression. Also, these Melnik papers are reviews, not studies - he's just summarizing other people's research (nothing wrong with that, in fact it's super useful, but Melnik isn't proving anything, and you should read the original papers and see if he's accurately reporting the results, and if those papers are designing their experiments correctly). Also consider that basically everything you eat contains miRNA. If it works for milk, it will work for everything else. But it probably won't, since none of this makes sense (since your digestive system has enzymes that will eliminate all of your dietary nucleic acids, and bile to disrupt any vesicles that contain miRNA) and also it seems like a lot of these claims that dietary miRNA can even make it into your bloodstream are unreproducible: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6628849/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6628849/ Can you honestly say to yourself you don't need this to be true? It certainly would be convenient if making one small dietary change could lead to huge health benefits.
    - orangepurple 3y ago
      Look at the large number of effects bovine milk exosomal micro RNAs have on mice. https://exrna.amegroups.com/article/view/68107/html https://exrna.amegroups.com/article/view/68107/html I know mice are not people but look at all the different tissues the miRNAs accumulate in mice. And there is some evidence that milk consumption turbocharges acne in humans which may be caused by more than the sugar content of it. There is no way this stuff is healthy just looking at its proliferative effects. It has a shotgun effect on so many proliferative pathways.
orangepurple 3y ago
I should have posted his follow up study which demonstrates the transfer of genetic material from milk and its effects within human cells. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.2147/CCID.S69135 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.2147/CCID.S69135
- amluto 3y ago
  That’s a review article, and it demonstrates nothing. It’s quite full of unsupported conclusions throughout, though. And it barely even mentions transfer of genetic material from milk.
  - orangepurple 3y ago
    Read the first paragraph of the introduction https://exrna.amegroups.com/article/view/68107/html https://exrna.amegroups.com/article/view/68107/html
    - amluto 3y ago
      That’s not the article you linked to.

mint2 3y ago

Irish history shows that milk does not cause modern western dietary diseases. For a long time dairy was a highly prominent component of diet, far more than today. And in American milk consumption has plummeted since the 70’s, these disease have done the opposite. skepticism is required.

sitkack 3y ago
Is your argument that Irish people still exist, so cow milk is safe?
- mint2 3y ago
  No, that would be a highly contrived straw man reading of what I said. Can we not do that? my argument is that while Irish people did suffer a lot of diseases over the millennia that dairy was a major component of their diet, those diseases were not the modern ones and definitely not in the same prevalence. Ergo I’m skeptical of a claim that dairy is causing many of the common modern western diseases such as that paper claims. If it were a cause, type 2 diabetes and all the others would have been rampant historically. Additionally, as I also noted, since America’s milk consumption has plummeted while the diseases have skyrocketed it’s a bit perplexing to conclude milk could be a significant factor. The trends simply do not add up. Finland has the highest milk consumptions and also one of the highest life expectancies. higher than the US. Seems a little odd if milk is supposedly causing disease. Hence I’m skeptical. The trends do not add up.
  - shortcake27 3y ago
    Conversely, it's equally as perplexing to conclude that milk does not cause any of these diseases because there exists an inverse relationship between milk consumption and rate of incidence over time. Correlation does not equal causation, and is especially irrelevant when comparing different countries in different time periods for diseases that are known to have multiple causes. I can't vouch for the study as I haven't read it, but it's quite reductive to dismiss what appears to be a comprehensive study mainly focused on biological pathways because there happens to be a negative correlation between Irish people drinking milk and rates of modern disease.
    - mint2 3y ago
      Okay fine, let’s go willy nilly spread nutrition advice based on stretched conclusions from limited studies because diet advice totally doesn’t have a history of misinterpretation and trends later found to be wrong. Let’s upend diets on this latest fad of studies! No matter that both historical and modern trends raise questions about the conclusion, let’s upend people diets! Happy now? P.s. Also skeptical doesn’t mean that something isn’t possible. Just a word to the wise.
      - orangepurple 3y ago
        I should have posted his follow up study which demonstrates the transfer of genetic material from milk and its effects into human cells. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.2147/CCID.S69135 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.2147/CCID.S69135
        mint2 3y ago
        An article that further highlights the point I made - they site some groups getting more acne when adapting a “wester diet” (not just milk), and fail to address all the easily found counter examples rested to dairy. But that paper is only 1/3 about milk, it also cites high glycemic index carbs and saturated fats as being causes. Health issues around low fiber high glycemic carbs is not a new or novel claim Going back to the ethnic groups it cites as seeing increased acne with adoption of “western” diets. It’s not a surprise or novel finding that a diet of ultra processed high glycemic low fiber and all the other issues with the convenience food diet causes health issues. It is interesting they cite a group known for lactose intolerance and blame dairy. They cite one disease as creating a natural experiment, and yet don’t mention lactose intolerance. And this new paper is just about acne, not the wide range of modern afflictions mentioned before. Dairy very well could have negative impacts, but it also could be the next aluminum or eggs. I’m not going to argue with eating less refined carbs and sugars and eating more vegetables. That’s well supported advice. Latching onto select dietary papers and then extrapolating to broad conclusions is a hallmark of what’s wrong with how the media and people understand nutrition science.

vintagedave 3y ago

Is BC Melnik related to this study? I’m unsure of the relation to this article. Followup: how good are those studies? From that link I can’t determine their research institute and without a background in this area I have no way to evaluate the claims.

orangepurple 3y ago
He is funded by German government grants (he is affiliated with a University) and not by industry. Disclosure: The author reports no conflict of interest in this work.

superb_dev 3y ago

> pasteurized milk causes direct delivery of bovine DNA into human cells. Oh god, the milk is turning us into cows!

carlmr 3y ago
I want some Belgian Blue milk now.
- justinclift 3y ago
  Sounds like bull. ;)

petre 3y ago

Are you speaking on behalf of the UHT milk industry? UHT milk is so processed it's not even milk anymore. Milk with 1 year shelf life? No thanx.

gruez 3y ago
>UHT milk is so processed it's not even milk anymore. Milk with 1 year shelf life? No thanx. What specific characteristics of UHT milk makes it "not even milk anymore"? 1 year shelf life doesn't really count, unless you specifically care about milk spoiling within a certain amount of time.
- petre 3y ago
  It's just like steak made with the flamethrower. Unlimited shelf life because it's basically charcoal. Spoiled milk = youghurt made with the wrong kind of bacteria. UHT milk does not spoil like pasteurized milk because not even lactobacteria bothers with it. I'd rather drink homemade rice milk. At least that one is prone to alcoholic fermentation.

soligern 3y ago

Plenty of cultures around the world have subsisted almost entirely on a dairy based diet for thousands of years at this point.

jryb 3y ago

You digest any DNA (and RNA) you eat. The pancreas creates nucleases specifically for this purpose. Why Pubmed even indexes this journal is beyond me.

orangepurple 3y ago
I should have posted his follow up study which demonstrates the transfer of genetic material from milk and its effects within human cells. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.2147/CCID.S69135 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.2147/CCID.S69135
- jryb 3y ago
  The claims here are just that microRNAs are delivered, not DNA, and that these change gene expression. Also, these Melnik papers are reviews, not studies - he's just summarizing other people's research (nothing wrong with that, in fact it's super useful, but Melnik isn't proving anything, and you should read the original papers and see if he's accurately reporting the results, and if those papers are designing their experiments correctly). Also consider that basically everything you eat contains miRNA. If it works for milk, it will work for everything else. But it probably won't, since none of this makes sense (since your digestive system has enzymes that will eliminate all of your dietary nucleic acids, and bile to disrupt any vesicles that contain miRNA) and also it seems like a lot of these claims that dietary miRNA can even make it into your bloodstream are unreproducible: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6628849/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6628849/ Can you honestly say to yourself you don't need this to be true? It certainly would be convenient if making one small dietary change could lead to huge health benefits.
  - orangepurple 3y ago
    Look at the large number of effects bovine milk exosomal micro RNAs have on mice. https://exrna.amegroups.com/article/view/68107/html https://exrna.amegroups.com/article/view/68107/html I know mice are not people but look at all the different tissues the miRNAs accumulate in mice. And there is some evidence that milk consumption turbocharges acne in humans which may be caused by more than the sugar content of it. There is no way this stuff is healthy just looking at its proliferative effects. It has a shotgun effect on so many proliferative pathways.

orangepurple 3y ago

I should have posted his follow up study which demonstrates the transfer of genetic material from milk and its effects within human cells. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.2147/CCID.S69135 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.2147/CCID.S69135

amluto 3y ago
That’s a review article, and it demonstrates nothing. It’s quite full of unsupported conclusions throughout, though. And it barely even mentions transfer of genetic material from milk.
- orangepurple 3y ago
  Read the first paragraph of the introduction https://exrna.amegroups.com/article/view/68107/html https://exrna.amegroups.com/article/view/68107/html
  - amluto 3y ago
    That’s not the article you linked to.