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It's impressive that you have evaluated 20k+ instances to summarize the Fediverse. I have accounts on 5 separate Mastodon instances, and on none of them is the

by yborg 3y ago

It's impressive that you have evaluated 20k+ instances to summarize the Fediverse. I have accounts on 5 separate Mastodon instances, and on none of them is the experience as you describe it. You also seem to believe that if you get on an instance run by a reactionary martinet that you are somehow forced to stay there or stop using the Fediverse. Of course, a lot of people seem to believe this about Twitter.

isaacremuant 3y ago
It's impressive how you don't get that the point stands because of the paradigm of users being tied to instances and not having the ability to construct themselves, what they want to see. You're comfortable with whatever you're doing and that's fine but for someone who is looking for my usecase ,which is more akin to Reddit and being able to pick the subs I see for myself, it's absolutely limiting. I don't care about mastodon or twitter but that's beside the point. My points stand. If you want to address them make sure you read them again.
- Etrnl_President 3y ago
  Sounds like what you need is more like an overlaid comment section, perhaps through an app or browser extension, which you can apply to any website and article. Would be cool if such a thing existed.
  - mananaysiempre 3y ago
    People did build things like that a couple of times, but it’s probably telling that my last vague recollection of one is several US newspapers piling up on one of them because people used it to put mean and perhaps even hurtful things on pages of news websites (opt-in via a browser extension, mind you).
    - Etrnl_President 3y ago
      Them's the risks of freeze peach. Interestingly, it turns out, free speech by far benefits the poor more than the rich. https://phys.org/news/2023-06-economics-free-speech-benefits-poor.html https://phys.org/news/2023-06-economics-free-speech-benefits... So I'm willing to accept a few mean comments.
  - isaacremuant 3y ago
    [dead]
- xp84 3y ago
  Users can move to other instances on Mastodon without tremendous effort, and it seems like your main beef, about some admin limiting what you can see by capriciously de-federating left and right seems to be primarily hypothetical. Why wouldn’t one start out on a pretty open, well-connected instance, follow whomever they want (‘constructing what you want to see’), and defer worrying until/unless some actual admin actions bother you? Second, users absolutely can run their own instance for full control over federation decisions, which is, while out of reach for normies, well in the capability of most HN readers such as yourself. I’m not even saying Mastodon or Lemmy is a good replacement for Reddit! It’s quite different and I think a Reddit-like thing offers way better threaded discussions, and find sorting through Twitter-style reply chains far, far worse than upvoted comments! But I’m still puzzled by the critiques you’ve chosen on the fediverse.
  - isaacremuant 3y ago
    > Users can move to other instances on Mastodon without tremendous effort Moving instances is unnecessary friction. I don't care if you qualify it as tremendous or not > and it seems like your main beef, about some admin limiting what you can see by capriciously de-federating left and right seems to be primarily hypothetical. What a disingenuous comment. You went from "have surveyed the 200k instances" to "it's hypothetical then". No. It has already happened in a few of the instances recommended on Reddit. It happened in the first 2 I created accounts for. > Why wouldn’t one start out on a pretty open, well-connected instance, follow whomever they want (‘constructing what you want to see’), and defer worrying until/unless some actual admin actions bother you? I was following one that I thought was more open than the initial one I found myself in and suddenly it wasn't and the argument of some users was "of course the admin can defederate at any point for vague reasons" > Second, users absolutely can run their own instance for full control over federation decisions, which is, while out of reach for normies, well in the capability of most HN readers such as yourself. I'm also capable of hosting my own email and plenty other things but it's unnecessary effort for the value. It really is amazing how after disingenuous takes I get a ridiculous appeal to geekdom or something. > I’m not even saying Mastodon or Lemmy is a good replacement for Reddit! It’s quite different and I think a Reddit-like thing offers way better threaded discussions, and find sorting through Twitter-style reply chains far, far worse than upvoted comments! But I’m still puzzled by the critiques you’ve chosen on the fediverse. You're puzzled because you're unwilling to read them for what they are and instead produce strawmen in order to deny they are a reality. Mastodon works for you. Great. But my points stand and are in no way rebuked by your "it's hypothetical", "wait, it's easy", wait, it's not easy but a HN type should do it.

by yborg 3y ago

isaacremuant 3y ago

It's impressive how you don't get that the point stands because of the paradigm of users being tied to instances and not having the ability to construct themselves, what they want to see. You're comfortable with whatever you're doing and that's fine but for someone who is looking for my usecase ,which is more akin to Reddit and being able to pick the subs I see for myself, it's absolutely limiting. I don't care about mastodon or twitter but that's beside the point. My points stand. If you want to address them make sure you read them again.

Etrnl_President 3y ago
Sounds like what you need is more like an overlaid comment section, perhaps through an app or browser extension, which you can apply to any website and article. Would be cool if such a thing existed.
- mananaysiempre 3y ago
  People did build things like that a couple of times, but it’s probably telling that my last vague recollection of one is several US newspapers piling up on one of them because people used it to put mean and perhaps even hurtful things on pages of news websites (opt-in via a browser extension, mind you).
  - Etrnl_President 3y ago
    Them's the risks of freeze peach. Interestingly, it turns out, free speech by far benefits the poor more than the rich. https://phys.org/news/2023-06-economics-free-speech-benefits-poor.html https://phys.org/news/2023-06-economics-free-speech-benefits... So I'm willing to accept a few mean comments.
- isaacremuant 3y ago
  [dead]
xp84 3y ago
Users can move to other instances on Mastodon without tremendous effort, and it seems like your main beef, about some admin limiting what you can see by capriciously de-federating left and right seems to be primarily hypothetical. Why wouldn’t one start out on a pretty open, well-connected instance, follow whomever they want (‘constructing what you want to see’), and defer worrying until/unless some actual admin actions bother you? Second, users absolutely can run their own instance for full control over federation decisions, which is, while out of reach for normies, well in the capability of most HN readers such as yourself. I’m not even saying Mastodon or Lemmy is a good replacement for Reddit! It’s quite different and I think a Reddit-like thing offers way better threaded discussions, and find sorting through Twitter-style reply chains far, far worse than upvoted comments! But I’m still puzzled by the critiques you’ve chosen on the fediverse.
- isaacremuant 3y ago
  > Users can move to other instances on Mastodon without tremendous effort Moving instances is unnecessary friction. I don't care if you qualify it as tremendous or not > and it seems like your main beef, about some admin limiting what you can see by capriciously de-federating left and right seems to be primarily hypothetical. What a disingenuous comment. You went from "have surveyed the 200k instances" to "it's hypothetical then". No. It has already happened in a few of the instances recommended on Reddit. It happened in the first 2 I created accounts for. > Why wouldn’t one start out on a pretty open, well-connected instance, follow whomever they want (‘constructing what you want to see’), and defer worrying until/unless some actual admin actions bother you? I was following one that I thought was more open than the initial one I found myself in and suddenly it wasn't and the argument of some users was "of course the admin can defederate at any point for vague reasons" > Second, users absolutely can run their own instance for full control over federation decisions, which is, while out of reach for normies, well in the capability of most HN readers such as yourself. I'm also capable of hosting my own email and plenty other things but it's unnecessary effort for the value. It really is amazing how after disingenuous takes I get a ridiculous appeal to geekdom or something. > I’m not even saying Mastodon or Lemmy is a good replacement for Reddit! It’s quite different and I think a Reddit-like thing offers way better threaded discussions, and find sorting through Twitter-style reply chains far, far worse than upvoted comments! But I’m still puzzled by the critiques you’ve chosen on the fediverse. You're puzzled because you're unwilling to read them for what they are and instead produce strawmen in order to deny they are a reality. Mastodon works for you. Great. But my points stand and are in no way rebuked by your "it's hypothetical", "wait, it's easy", wait, it's not easy but a HN type should do it.