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The only reason there is a need for "economic growth" is for profit. Prove me wrong, please! The statement that an "aging population could be a drag on economi

The only reason there is a need for "economic growth" is for profit. Prove me wrong, please! The statement that an "aging population could be a drag on economic growth" is really saying that capitalism cannot profit off of the elderly and that is a bad thing for stock holders.

amelius 3y ago
The aging population keeps a hold on housing which they don't need. Edit: as in, their houses are outgrowing them.
- newswasboring 3y ago
  ... elderly need houses too. I don't think you expressed yourself clearly.
  - dukeyukey 3y ago
    What they probably meant is that elderly people often stay in their large, 5-bedroom family houses once their children have grown up and left. This takes family-sized housing off the market, making it harder for young families to buy big-enough houses.
logicchains 3y ago
> The only reason there is a need for "economic growth" is for profit. Prove me wrong, please! How about you try visiting somewhere like North Korea, or some country in Sub-Saharan Africa, the countries which have had the least economic growth, and try to say with a straight face that economic growth doesn't make a difference. >The statement that an "aging population could be a drag on economic growth" is really saying that capitalism cannot profit off of the elderly and that is a bad thing for stock holders. To put it in simple terms, compare two situations: in one you're working to support just yourself and your father, in the second you're working to support both your parents and two grandparents. Obviously in the second one your standard of living is going to be worse, and as a society that's what it likes when the ratio of working to non-working people decreases.
- FollowingTheDao 3y ago
  > the countries which have had the least economic growth, and try to say with a straight face that economic growth doesn't make a difference. There is a difference between economic growth and strangling a county into poverty with sanctions (North Korea) or economic imperialism (Africa and the IMF). That is not economic stabilization. > Obviously in the second one your standard of living is going to be worse, and as a society that's what it likes when the ratio of working to non-working people decreases. You are confusing economic growth with economic stabilization. I am for the latter. The need for economic growth is based ion the need for a profit.
sebastos 3y ago
You use the word "profit" like it's something that only evil capitalist robber barons can do, but we should all want everybody to be profitable. That's what it is to have an economy. Yes, fatcat wall street stockholders want the companies they hold stock in to be profitable so that they receive a return on their investment. But small local business owners want to earn a profit so that they have a take-home income that they can use to feed their family. Even bottom-rung workers employ their labor in such a way that it profits them. You wouldn't work a job if it didn't earn you a paycheck every two weeks which they you can use to buy food, shelter, furniture, electronics, etc. that give you a higher standard of living than what you could make with your own two hands. Everyone everywhere is always trying to get out more than they put in by being intelligent about what they put in. But if you're very young, or very old, or sick, you can't play that game. That's part of why the rest of us are trying to amass profits: so that we can all chip in some of that surplus to donate to those who need it. And eventually, we'll be part of that group ourselves, which is why we try to save for retirement. It's a given that we all have to expend effort to stay alive and comfortable in this world. You have to do that whether you're part of a bustling economy or a hunter gatherer in the woods. But if you're part of a bustling economy, there's a chance that everybody can live an easier and more comfortable life because 1. people get to specialize their work towards what they're best at or what they enjoy most, and 2. because you can build on the shoulders of giants by using existing designs and infrastructure to more efficiently capture what we need from the ground, soil, etc. A growing economy is even better because it makes it a good bet that if you lend your money away to people who have a short-term need for it, they'll be able to give you back more than what you originally handed them. And because that person who has a short-term need believes that an infusion of money now will make even more profit than what they'd give back, they'll agree to that deal. Those conditions are good for supporting an aging population because you can give money to the most active and productive people, then get back more right when you need it. Without a growing economy, none of that logic works anymore, and everything becomes less convenient for everybody - the elderly most of all.
- FollowingTheDao 3y ago
  > You use the word "profit" like it's something that only evil capitalist robber barons can do, but we should all want everybody to be profitable. I am using the economic definition of profit. Labor does not gain profit from selling their labor hours. Extending effort does not mean there is profit. Ask any non-profit. The need for profit means the theft of labor value from the worker.
dukeyukey 3y ago
I would like there to be more resources to go around in general. I'd like a bigger house so I can raise a family; food to feed that family with; consumer goods and time off to go on holiday and have a fun life. Economic growth is basically shorthand for producing more of those things so we can enjoy more of them.

amelius 3y ago

The aging population keeps a hold on housing which they don't need. Edit: as in, their houses are outgrowing them.

newswasboring 3y ago
... elderly need houses too. I don't think you expressed yourself clearly.
- dukeyukey 3y ago
  What they probably meant is that elderly people often stay in their large, 5-bedroom family houses once their children have grown up and left. This takes family-sized housing off the market, making it harder for young families to buy big-enough houses.

logicchains 3y ago

> The only reason there is a need for "economic growth" is for profit. Prove me wrong, please! How about you try visiting somewhere like North Korea, or some country in Sub-Saharan Africa, the countries which have had the least economic growth, and try to say with a straight face that economic growth doesn't make a difference. >The statement that an "aging population could be a drag on economic growth" is really saying that capitalism cannot profit off of the elderly and that is a bad thing for stock holders. To put it in simple terms, compare two situations: in one you're working to support just yourself and your father, in the second you're working to support both your parents and two grandparents. Obviously in the second one your standard of living is going to be worse, and as a society that's what it likes when the ratio of working to non-working people decreases.

FollowingTheDao 3y ago
> the countries which have had the least economic growth, and try to say with a straight face that economic growth doesn't make a difference. There is a difference between economic growth and strangling a county into poverty with sanctions (North Korea) or economic imperialism (Africa and the IMF). That is not economic stabilization. > Obviously in the second one your standard of living is going to be worse, and as a society that's what it likes when the ratio of working to non-working people decreases. You are confusing economic growth with economic stabilization. I am for the latter. The need for economic growth is based ion the need for a profit.

sebastos 3y ago

You use the word "profit" like it's something that only evil capitalist robber barons can do, but we should all want everybody to be profitable. That's what it is to have an economy. Yes, fatcat wall street stockholders want the companies they hold stock in to be profitable so that they receive a return on their investment. But small local business owners want to earn a profit so that they have a take-home income that they can use to feed their family. Even bottom-rung workers employ their labor in such a way that it profits them. You wouldn't work a job if it didn't earn you a paycheck every two weeks which they you can use to buy food, shelter, furniture, electronics, etc. that give you a higher standard of living than what you could make with your own two hands. Everyone everywhere is always trying to get out more than they put in by being intelligent about what they put in. But if you're very young, or very old, or sick, you can't play that game. That's part of why the rest of us are trying to amass profits: so that we can all chip in some of that surplus to donate to those who need it. And eventually, we'll be part of that group ourselves, which is why we try to save for retirement. It's a given that we all have to expend effort to stay alive and comfortable in this world. You have to do that whether you're part of a bustling economy or a hunter gatherer in the woods. But if you're part of a bustling economy, there's a chance that everybody can live an easier and more comfortable life because 1. people get to specialize their work towards what they're best at or what they enjoy most, and 2. because you can build on the shoulders of giants by using existing designs and infrastructure to more efficiently capture what we need from the ground, soil, etc. A growing economy is even better because it makes it a good bet that if you lend your money away to people who have a short-term need for it, they'll be able to give you back more than what you originally handed them. And because that person who has a short-term need believes that an infusion of money now will make even more profit than what they'd give back, they'll agree to that deal. Those conditions are good for supporting an aging population because you can give money to the most active and productive people, then get back more right when you need it. Without a growing economy, none of that logic works anymore, and everything becomes less convenient for everybody - the elderly most of all.

FollowingTheDao 3y ago
> You use the word "profit" like it's something that only evil capitalist robber barons can do, but we should all want everybody to be profitable. I am using the economic definition of profit. Labor does not gain profit from selling their labor hours. Extending effort does not mean there is profit. Ask any non-profit. The need for profit means the theft of labor value from the worker.

dukeyukey 3y ago

I would like there to be more resources to go around in general. I'd like a bigger house so I can raise a family; food to feed that family with; consumer goods and time off to go on holiday and have a fun life. Economic growth is basically shorthand for producing more of those things so we can enjoy more of them.