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I have never used a phone (nor a laptop) where the battery wasn't easily replaceable and to be honest I can't really imagine using one. Batteries can (and do) g

I have never used a phone (nor a laptop) where the battery wasn't easily replaceable and to be honest I can't really imagine using one. Batteries can (and do) go bad and start expanding. Using a device where the battery isn't easily accessible feels absolutely distressing.

veave 3y ago
Which goes to show that the option is there and people don't take it because they simnply don't want it so this regulation is the EU being the EU.
- seba_dos1 3y ago
  The option is there indeed, although I'm not sure if the general population would be happy with e.g. an Openmoko phone back when I already was :P
- onli 3y ago
  Disagree. First, the devices with removable batteries are exceedingly rare right now. They also often enough are niche products. Second, it is not reasonable to expect every consumer to always think about what is right, and not instead to follow what marketing tells him to buy. This is exactly what regulations are good for and historically have solved.
  - veave 3y ago
    Interesting argument against democracy that you have in there - we should go back to monarchy. After all, it is not reasonable to expect every citizen to think about what is right, since instead they follow propaganda.
    - onli 3y ago
      The danger of manipulation through propaganda is indeed an argument used in political discourse, though in reasonable discussions when talking about direct and indirect democracy. The layers of parliamentary systems are partly a means of protection against manipulations. If you want to read an interesting and nice to read book that partly talks about this, then I'd recommend Profiles in Courage by John F. Kennedy. Though a consumer decision is not the same as a political vote, at least the latter is not supposed to be similarly thoughtless, so there is no need to interpret my comment that broadly.
    - Levitz 3y ago
      When a chosen official makes a law that the citizens have to abide by, that's democracy and not its opposite.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    Yes people are too stupid to make their own choices. The EU should just start coming out with “5 Year Plans”. What could possibly go wrong? The EU’s regulations must be why there is a thriving tech sector in Europe…
    - f1shy 3y ago
      There is good development in the UK! Oh… they are not EU … The ones that downvoted this comment will be surprised in 10 years…
    - fullspectrumdev 3y ago
      Europes tech sector is thriving, but it’s all boring technology that actually solves real problems that nobody cares about like SAP and shit so the HN crowd don’t think it exists :)
      - scarface_74 3y ago
        “Thriving” a bunch of SaaS companies? If you add up the valuations of all of the tech companies in the EU, do they sum up to the value of Apple? That’s not even to mention the pay differential for tech employees.
- ReptileMan 3y ago
  Oligopoly and cartels are adept at serving their interests and not the interests of society and customers.
- john61 3y ago
  Regulation is not made for the benefit of individuals, but for the benefit of society as a whole. In this case, for the environment or the planet. I doubt that people don't want a planet to live.
  - nonethewiser 3y ago
    Society as a whole is just a bunch of individuals. If its bad for individuals its bad for society.
    - john61 3y ago
      The whole is more than the sum of its parts.
ekianjo 3y ago
> used a phone there are almost no smartphones where you can easily replace the battery these days.
- Semaphor 3y ago
  While it’s probably not easily, it was (to me) surprisingly easy to change the battery in my OnePlus 5. The battery itself was glued, but not in a way that removing it would destroy anything else. The other parts just required normal phone repair tools.
- seba_dos1 3y ago
  Thankfully, in the niche I'm interested in it's still common. On my Librem 5 I can replace the battery with nothing but a fingernail to take the back cover out, and could do so the same way on all the other smartphone's I've used in the past too.
- superkuh 3y ago
  But there are options. And instead of having people chose themselves to pick these options and refuse to buy terrible phones the EU is instead saying it will use the force of government violence against other people so that only phones of their desired non-shittiness are sold there. I really don't thinking bringing violence into this situation is called for. The EU is showing is an implicit assumption that people cannot make choices for themselves and violence must be used by the state to get them to make the correct choices. That's nasty and a very slippery slope to authoritarianism. As a human person with volition I simply chose not to buy bad, anti-consumer devices. It is possible. And I do it without the government threatening violence on my behalf.
  - kaba0 3y ago
    Come on, what a stupid take.. what violence? Let’s also call out the EU next for “using violence” and disallows selling grinded shit as food.. capitalism doesn’t work without rules, period! It’s as per the very Adam Smith! Libertarianism is absolutely divorced from reality.
scotty79 3y ago
The only device I've ever seen firsthand that had its battery swollen was a Macbook. Battery was glued of course so replacement wasn't totally easy.

veave 3y ago

Which goes to show that the option is there and people don't take it because they simnply don't want it so this regulation is the EU being the EU.

seba_dos1 3y ago
The option is there indeed, although I'm not sure if the general population would be happy with e.g. an Openmoko phone back when I already was :P
onli 3y ago
Disagree. First, the devices with removable batteries are exceedingly rare right now. They also often enough are niche products. Second, it is not reasonable to expect every consumer to always think about what is right, and not instead to follow what marketing tells him to buy. This is exactly what regulations are good for and historically have solved.
- veave 3y ago
  Interesting argument against democracy that you have in there - we should go back to monarchy. After all, it is not reasonable to expect every citizen to think about what is right, since instead they follow propaganda.
  - onli 3y ago
    The danger of manipulation through propaganda is indeed an argument used in political discourse, though in reasonable discussions when talking about direct and indirect democracy. The layers of parliamentary systems are partly a means of protection against manipulations. If you want to read an interesting and nice to read book that partly talks about this, then I'd recommend Profiles in Courage by John F. Kennedy. Though a consumer decision is not the same as a political vote, at least the latter is not supposed to be similarly thoughtless, so there is no need to interpret my comment that broadly.
  - Levitz 3y ago
    When a chosen official makes a law that the citizens have to abide by, that's democracy and not its opposite.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  Yes people are too stupid to make their own choices. The EU should just start coming out with “5 Year Plans”. What could possibly go wrong? The EU’s regulations must be why there is a thriving tech sector in Europe…
  - f1shy 3y ago
    There is good development in the UK! Oh… they are not EU … The ones that downvoted this comment will be surprised in 10 years…
  - fullspectrumdev 3y ago
    Europes tech sector is thriving, but it’s all boring technology that actually solves real problems that nobody cares about like SAP and shit so the HN crowd don’t think it exists :)
    - scarface_74 3y ago
      “Thriving” a bunch of SaaS companies? If you add up the valuations of all of the tech companies in the EU, do they sum up to the value of Apple? That’s not even to mention the pay differential for tech employees.
ReptileMan 3y ago
Oligopoly and cartels are adept at serving their interests and not the interests of society and customers.
john61 3y ago
Regulation is not made for the benefit of individuals, but for the benefit of society as a whole. In this case, for the environment or the planet. I doubt that people don't want a planet to live.
- nonethewiser 3y ago
  Society as a whole is just a bunch of individuals. If its bad for individuals its bad for society.
  - john61 3y ago
    The whole is more than the sum of its parts.

ekianjo 3y ago

> used a phone there are almost no smartphones where you can easily replace the battery these days.

Semaphor 3y ago
While it’s probably not easily, it was (to me) surprisingly easy to change the battery in my OnePlus 5. The battery itself was glued, but not in a way that removing it would destroy anything else. The other parts just required normal phone repair tools.
seba_dos1 3y ago
Thankfully, in the niche I'm interested in it's still common. On my Librem 5 I can replace the battery with nothing but a fingernail to take the back cover out, and could do so the same way on all the other smartphone's I've used in the past too.
superkuh 3y ago
But there are options. And instead of having people chose themselves to pick these options and refuse to buy terrible phones the EU is instead saying it will use the force of government violence against other people so that only phones of their desired non-shittiness are sold there. I really don't thinking bringing violence into this situation is called for. The EU is showing is an implicit assumption that people cannot make choices for themselves and violence must be used by the state to get them to make the correct choices. That's nasty and a very slippery slope to authoritarianism. As a human person with volition I simply chose not to buy bad, anti-consumer devices. It is possible. And I do it without the government threatening violence on my behalf.
- kaba0 3y ago
  Come on, what a stupid take.. what violence? Let’s also call out the EU next for “using violence” and disallows selling grinded shit as food.. capitalism doesn’t work without rules, period! It’s as per the very Adam Smith! Libertarianism is absolutely divorced from reality.

scotty79 3y ago

The only device I've ever seen firsthand that had its battery swollen was a Macbook. Battery was glued of course so replacement wasn't totally easy.