17 ms·

Sony exclusives on the PS5 and a dearth of quality exclusives on Microsoft's side definitely have a lot to do with this but I wonder whether the Xbox Series S/X

by Jochim 3y ago

Sony exclusives on the PS5 and a dearth of quality exclusives on Microsoft's side definitely have a lot to do with this but I wonder whether the Xbox Series S/X distinction contributed as well. The current console generation came with a fairly large price hike and Microsoft responded by also releasing a more affordable but less powerful model. The problem is that a non-technical consumer can go out and purchase a PS5 safe in the knowledge that they're getting the same gaming experience as anyone else that owns a PS5. Someone considering an Xbox now has to choose between the series S and X. They now need to compare specifications, figure out which one is more powerful and worry whether the console will be able to deliver decent fidelity and performance in newer games. On another note, it'd be nice to see exclusivity agreements die entirely. Microsoft has always been fairly good at making their titles available on PC and Sony is moving in that direction but still makes heavy use of timed exclusives.

tialaramex 3y ago
It doesn't help at all that Microsoft's usual brand insanity infected this product. So whereas Sony have made the Playstation, the Playstation 2, the Playstation 3, the Playstation 4 and now the Playstation 5 - Microsoft names products based on picking a handful of "hot" words with no specific meaning, and so like a modern CPU you need to go read a detailed specification document to even figure out what you're actually buying. Do we need Windows Azure .NET Live? No idea, maybe it's similar to Microsoft Active Core X except targetted at a different market? Here's a blurb telling us it's "For the smart professional", presumably as opposed to products which are only for dumb amateurs ?
- PretzelPirate 3y ago
  Microsoft couldn't follow the 1,2,3... naming convention because the first Xbox came out when the PS2 was out. They'd always seem one behind if they released the Xbox 2 when the PS3 released.
  - uptown 3y ago
    Windows 9 would like a word.
    - NBJack 3y ago
      Windows XP and Windows ME have joined your party. They corroborate your story, but seem to be carrying a text only version that claims to be Windows 1.0, who asks in a wheeze where 2 is. Windows 2.1 hides their face and pretends not to notice as they walk away, but they awkwardly trip over Office 365 in the process.
      - mcpackieh 3y ago
        Don't forget Windows 2000. Between Millennium Edition and 2000, Microsoft had two versions of windows simultaneously named in reference to the new century, but with different underlying technology and no way for average users to determine which was better (hint: not the one they marketed to average users.)
disruptiveink 3y ago
Xbox ultimately made the same mistake as Nintendo with the Wii / Wii U. Just give the console a number. And. Increment. That's it. You can still have Pro / Slim / whatever models, but I have no idea why Nintendo and Microsoft both willingly threw away the easiest marketing strategy there is: your kid has the 4 and the 5 just came out. 5 is larger than 4 therefore the kid knows what to ask, regardless of age. The parent also knows what to buy because 5 is larger than 4. Nothing convinces me that this isn't the reason why new Playstation models sell like crazy before any decent games are out. 4 was larger than 3 and 5 is larger than 4. That's it. Nintendo got out of it by starting a new line of consoles with the Switch, but Microsoft's marketing just keeps giving this one away to Sony for free. It's unbelievable.
- Philip-J-Fry 3y ago
  I don't think Xbox made the same mistake. Because while the naming is pretty bad, people do actually know it's the latest generation console. The Wii U on the other hand completely flew under most people's radar. People were over the Wii and then Nintendo releases the Wii U. Most people thought it was an addon tablet because that's all they kept showing, just Wii remotes and the tablet.
  - petepete 3y ago
    I just had to look up the difference between the series X and S. It wasn't obvious to me. It's not even obvious which is the more powerful model, there's no mention anywhere of what X and S stand for. Is 'S' Small or Super? And I guess the 'X' is for eXperience. Compare that to PlayStation 4/PlayStation 4 Pro/PlayStation 5 (and yeah, I'm not going to argue that 'pro' isn't a stupid designation for a slightly-more-powerful-than-before console), but it's at least obvious where they sit in the lineup.
    - mavhc 3y ago
      You didn't play your professional games on your PlayStation Pro? Office Simulator 2017, Mortgage Agreement 8, Car Repayments Xtreme?
gonzo41 3y ago
I'm surprised that with all the money that MSFT has that they can't just put 1 or 2 Bm into a few few AAA titles / or just create them to drive the experience. On the hardware note, I would not discount the impact that covid chip shortage had on the ability for MSFT to pivot on this problem.
- ohgodplsno 3y ago
  Microsoft put over 200 mil in Halo 5, only to promptly abandon it. Needless to say, Microsoft has not been a great steward for first party games. Ninja Theory has been making Hellblade for god knows how many years, Redfall, Sea of Thieves... All massive investments with very little return.
  - gonzo41 3y ago
    Yeah I think the problem is MSFT being directly involved in the game. I think the better model for them would be if they just sprinkled money on studio's with ambition. It's like the movie business, there'll be misses, but there'll be big wins.
    - Jochim 3y ago
      IIRC they weren't directly involved in Redfall's development. They may have pushed for it to release when it did though. HiFi Rush is exactly what you describe. Published by Bethesda but developed by a smaller studio. Very well received without requiring a huge investment.
web3-is-a-scam 3y ago
The funny thing is even as a consumer that understands all the confusing branding and power differences, I would still buy the cheaper system if it had compelling games to play compared to the PS5…it just doesn’t, and when it comes to first party titles everything Microsoft puts out is mid at best (Halo), or downright awful (Redfall). I also own a Nintendo Switch and I think I own more games on that than any other console I’ve owned in my entire life so raw power is t an issue for me. I want to want to buy an Xbox but the most important thing (games) just is t there. I may still buy one when Starfield comes out because it would be more expensive to build a gaming PC to play it (mac user), but I’m waiting to find out from reviews if it lives up to the (admittedly impressive from what they’ve shown) stuff they’ve shown off recently.
jmkni 3y ago
Do non-technical consumers care though? The Series S is an amazing little machine, and it's the cheapest. I think that's all most non-technical or casual gamers really want. I'm pretty technical but I'm definitely a casual gamer, the Series S serves me perfectly.
- Hamuko 3y ago
  I don't think the Series S is selling that particularly well. Back when the consoles were in very short supply in 2021-2022, the Series S and the Switch were the only consoles advertised in electronics stores print ads – the PS5 and Xbox Series X would be long sold out before the print ads would even get to circulation.
flir 3y ago
You remind me of this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUXnJraKM3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUXnJraKM3k which is a couple of decades old now. Funny thing is, that video was made within Microsoft. It's fascinating that everyone can be aware of the problem, but they still can't steer the behemoth.

by Jochim 3y ago

tialaramex 3y ago

It doesn't help at all that Microsoft's usual brand insanity infected this product. So whereas Sony have made the Playstation, the Playstation 2, the Playstation 3, the Playstation 4 and now the Playstation 5 - Microsoft names products based on picking a handful of "hot" words with no specific meaning, and so like a modern CPU you need to go read a detailed specification document to even figure out what you're actually buying. Do we need Windows Azure .NET Live? No idea, maybe it's similar to Microsoft Active Core X except targetted at a different market? Here's a blurb telling us it's "For the smart professional", presumably as opposed to products which are only for dumb amateurs ?

PretzelPirate 3y ago
Microsoft couldn't follow the 1,2,3... naming convention because the first Xbox came out when the PS2 was out. They'd always seem one behind if they released the Xbox 2 when the PS3 released.
- uptown 3y ago
  Windows 9 would like a word.
  - NBJack 3y ago
    Windows XP and Windows ME have joined your party. They corroborate your story, but seem to be carrying a text only version that claims to be Windows 1.0, who asks in a wheeze where 2 is. Windows 2.1 hides their face and pretends not to notice as they walk away, but they awkwardly trip over Office 365 in the process.
    - mcpackieh 3y ago
      Don't forget Windows 2000. Between Millennium Edition and 2000, Microsoft had two versions of windows simultaneously named in reference to the new century, but with different underlying technology and no way for average users to determine which was better (hint: not the one they marketed to average users.)

disruptiveink 3y ago

Xbox ultimately made the same mistake as Nintendo with the Wii / Wii U. Just give the console a number. And. Increment. That's it. You can still have Pro / Slim / whatever models, but I have no idea why Nintendo and Microsoft both willingly threw away the easiest marketing strategy there is: your kid has the 4 and the 5 just came out. 5 is larger than 4 therefore the kid knows what to ask, regardless of age. The parent also knows what to buy because 5 is larger than 4. Nothing convinces me that this isn't the reason why new Playstation models sell like crazy before any decent games are out. 4 was larger than 3 and 5 is larger than 4. That's it. Nintendo got out of it by starting a new line of consoles with the Switch, but Microsoft's marketing just keeps giving this one away to Sony for free. It's unbelievable.

Philip-J-Fry 3y ago
I don't think Xbox made the same mistake. Because while the naming is pretty bad, people do actually know it's the latest generation console. The Wii U on the other hand completely flew under most people's radar. People were over the Wii and then Nintendo releases the Wii U. Most people thought it was an addon tablet because that's all they kept showing, just Wii remotes and the tablet.
- petepete 3y ago
  I just had to look up the difference between the series X and S. It wasn't obvious to me. It's not even obvious which is the more powerful model, there's no mention anywhere of what X and S stand for. Is 'S' Small or Super? And I guess the 'X' is for eXperience. Compare that to PlayStation 4/PlayStation 4 Pro/PlayStation 5 (and yeah, I'm not going to argue that 'pro' isn't a stupid designation for a slightly-more-powerful-than-before console), but it's at least obvious where they sit in the lineup.
  - mavhc 3y ago
    You didn't play your professional games on your PlayStation Pro? Office Simulator 2017, Mortgage Agreement 8, Car Repayments Xtreme?

gonzo41 3y ago

I'm surprised that with all the money that MSFT has that they can't just put 1 or 2 Bm into a few few AAA titles / or just create them to drive the experience. On the hardware note, I would not discount the impact that covid chip shortage had on the ability for MSFT to pivot on this problem.

ohgodplsno 3y ago
Microsoft put over 200 mil in Halo 5, only to promptly abandon it. Needless to say, Microsoft has not been a great steward for first party games. Ninja Theory has been making Hellblade for god knows how many years, Redfall, Sea of Thieves... All massive investments with very little return.
- gonzo41 3y ago
  Yeah I think the problem is MSFT being directly involved in the game. I think the better model for them would be if they just sprinkled money on studio's with ambition. It's like the movie business, there'll be misses, but there'll be big wins.
  - Jochim 3y ago
    IIRC they weren't directly involved in Redfall's development. They may have pushed for it to release when it did though. HiFi Rush is exactly what you describe. Published by Bethesda but developed by a smaller studio. Very well received without requiring a huge investment.

web3-is-a-scam 3y ago

The funny thing is even as a consumer that understands all the confusing branding and power differences, I would still buy the cheaper system if it had compelling games to play compared to the PS5…it just doesn’t, and when it comes to first party titles everything Microsoft puts out is mid at best (Halo), or downright awful (Redfall). I also own a Nintendo Switch and I think I own more games on that than any other console I’ve owned in my entire life so raw power is t an issue for me. I want to want to buy an Xbox but the most important thing (games) just is t there. I may still buy one when Starfield comes out because it would be more expensive to build a gaming PC to play it (mac user), but I’m waiting to find out from reviews if it lives up to the (admittedly impressive from what they’ve shown) stuff they’ve shown off recently.

jmkni 3y ago

Do non-technical consumers care though? The Series S is an amazing little machine, and it's the cheapest. I think that's all most non-technical or casual gamers really want. I'm pretty technical but I'm definitely a casual gamer, the Series S serves me perfectly.

Hamuko 3y ago
I don't think the Series S is selling that particularly well. Back when the consoles were in very short supply in 2021-2022, the Series S and the Switch were the only consoles advertised in electronics stores print ads – the PS5 and Xbox Series X would be long sold out before the print ads would even get to circulation.

flir 3y ago

You remind me of this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUXnJraKM3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUXnJraKM3k which is a couple of decades old now. Funny thing is, that video was made within Microsoft. It's fascinating that everyone can be aware of the problem, but they still can't steer the behemoth.