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Also loosely related, the Homo Deus book has a chapter about how humans conquered technically what it classifies as the major challenges that we attributed to g

by balder1991 3y ago

Also loosely related, the Homo Deus book has a chapter about how humans conquered technically what it classifies as the major challenges that we attributed to gods, including hunger, plagues, and war. It mentions that nowadays, if any of these things cause human destruction it is a political thing and someone somewhere wants that to happen.

onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
Technologically, what do we have that stops famines from happening? Like, are we really immune from some mega drought occuring somewhere that mostly depends on rainfall? Or is that just extremely unlikely to happen, especially at a large scale?
- MattGaiser 3y ago
  A lot of this probably depends on who "we" refers to. I would imagine that many regions are not immune to a mega drought. For the West specifically, wealthier nations can kind of just export the shortage by paying more for supplies that would go elsewhere. The West also feeds most of its crops to animals, so that is an area for relatively easy reduction in an emergency. 67% of what is grown in the USA is animal food. But that proportion is dramatically lower in places like India. https://www.vox.com/2014/8/21/6053187/cropland-map-food-fuel-animal-feed https://www.vox.com/2014/8/21/6053187/cropland-map-food-fuel...
- kickout 3y ago
  No we are not immune. At all
- thriftwy 3y ago
  We can now buy grain in bulk and ship it anywhere through the world.
- cubefox 3y ago
  There are theories which say that nuclear war, due to firestorms in cities transporting soot into the upper atmosphere, would lead to nuclear winter, which would lead to a global famine: https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/pMsnCieusmYqGW26W/how-bad-would-nuclear-winter-caused-by-a-us-russia-nuclear https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/pMsnCieusmYqGW26W/... However, the papers which predict such scenarios have been criticized as being too pessimistic: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/jnDibtfvWNHLucf4D/actually-all-nuclear-famine-papers-are-bunk https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/jnDibtfvWNHLucf4D/actually-a...
- retrac 3y ago
  We can move food around. Famines historically tended to be regional; bad climate, or natural or man-made disaster, devastating food production in an area. Before the 19th century moving enough food from another region, or even from another continent to address that local shortfall, was much more challenging. If the 1930s American dustbowl had happened to a densely populated non-industrial society, it would probably have been one of the worst famines in history. Agricultural yields fell by like 50% for several years in the affected region. But they just brought in food from California and Saskatchewan. It was still a disaster, of course. The Russian famine of 1921 was one of the first times industrial societies really mobilized in that way. At the peak grain grown in the USA and donated to the USSR was feeding about 1 in 10 Russians during the famine. One of the largest logistics operations in history up to that point. It's why Herbert Hoover was nominated for the Nobel peace prize five times.
- nradov 3y ago
  Famines are primarily a political problem, not a technological problem. Our technology has improved agricultural productivity and distribution efficiency, but that doesn't matter when men with guns are stealing food from starving people.
  - fragmede 3y ago
    is it even that blatant? it's in shipping containers that aren't going to be released to the starving because of this simple concept known as paying for things.
    - nradov 3y ago
      It often is that blatant. Even when international donors send free food it often ends up getting seized by government forces or militant groups.
satysin 3y ago
This was the first thing that popped into my head too as I read Homo Deus a few months ago. A very accessible book for all. I recommend it. It’s not perfect but it’s a good, easy read compared to other books touching on the same subjects.

onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago

Technologically, what do we have that stops famines from happening? Like, are we really immune from some mega drought occuring somewhere that mostly depends on rainfall? Or is that just extremely unlikely to happen, especially at a large scale?

MattGaiser 3y ago
A lot of this probably depends on who "we" refers to. I would imagine that many regions are not immune to a mega drought. For the West specifically, wealthier nations can kind of just export the shortage by paying more for supplies that would go elsewhere. The West also feeds most of its crops to animals, so that is an area for relatively easy reduction in an emergency. 67% of what is grown in the USA is animal food. But that proportion is dramatically lower in places like India. https://www.vox.com/2014/8/21/6053187/cropland-map-food-fuel-animal-feed https://www.vox.com/2014/8/21/6053187/cropland-map-food-fuel...
kickout 3y ago
No we are not immune. At all
thriftwy 3y ago
We can now buy grain in bulk and ship it anywhere through the world.
cubefox 3y ago
There are theories which say that nuclear war, due to firestorms in cities transporting soot into the upper atmosphere, would lead to nuclear winter, which would lead to a global famine: https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/pMsnCieusmYqGW26W/how-bad-would-nuclear-winter-caused-by-a-us-russia-nuclear https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/pMsnCieusmYqGW26W/... However, the papers which predict such scenarios have been criticized as being too pessimistic: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/jnDibtfvWNHLucf4D/actually-all-nuclear-famine-papers-are-bunk https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/jnDibtfvWNHLucf4D/actually-a...
retrac 3y ago
We can move food around. Famines historically tended to be regional; bad climate, or natural or man-made disaster, devastating food production in an area. Before the 19th century moving enough food from another region, or even from another continent to address that local shortfall, was much more challenging. If the 1930s American dustbowl had happened to a densely populated non-industrial society, it would probably have been one of the worst famines in history. Agricultural yields fell by like 50% for several years in the affected region. But they just brought in food from California and Saskatchewan. It was still a disaster, of course. The Russian famine of 1921 was one of the first times industrial societies really mobilized in that way. At the peak grain grown in the USA and donated to the USSR was feeding about 1 in 10 Russians during the famine. One of the largest logistics operations in history up to that point. It's why Herbert Hoover was nominated for the Nobel peace prize five times.
nradov 3y ago
Famines are primarily a political problem, not a technological problem. Our technology has improved agricultural productivity and distribution efficiency, but that doesn't matter when men with guns are stealing food from starving people.
- fragmede 3y ago
  is it even that blatant? it's in shipping containers that aren't going to be released to the starving because of this simple concept known as paying for things.
  - nradov 3y ago
    It often is that blatant. Even when international donors send free food it often ends up getting seized by government forces or militant groups.

satysin 3y ago

This was the first thing that popped into my head too as I read Homo Deus a few months ago. A very accessible book for all. I recommend it. It’s not perfect but it’s a good, easy read compared to other books touching on the same subjects.