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Cars/trucks/motorcycles aren't allowed, and obviously police and ambulances (and fire trucks) doing their jobs don't have to follow the sign. Obviously emergen

Cars/trucks/motorcycles aren't allowed, and obviously police and ambulances (and fire trucks) doing their jobs don't have to follow the sign. Obviously emergency vehicles are going to do what they need to do, but even if they are allowed to break the rule they are still breaking the rule. I also think a park sign that says no vehicles also applies to bicycles and skateboards.

bandofthehawk 3y ago
Even if the park includes a skate park and a bike trail? I guess it depends on what size/type of park you are familiar with.
willsmith72 3y ago
What??? Please explain. I can't fathom how a no vehicles sign would apply to bicycles or skateboards
- godelski 3y ago
  Allow me to introduce you to the dictionary[0] Vehicle (noun) 1. a means of carrying or transporting something ...such as ... a: motor vehicle ... b: a piece of mechanized equipment 2 : an agent of transmission : carrier 3: a medium through which something is expressed, achieved, or displayed ---------------- You're thinking of specifically a __motorized__ vehicle. Which is a different thing than "vehicle". I think you'll agree that a bicycle and skateboard carry people and transport them. This is the same reason a wagon violates the rule. Almost everything on there was a vehicle. I think the only ambiguous ones are paper airplane, matchbox car, toy boat, and kite and I said those weren't because they can't transport things and are not motorized. But hey, technically they can be a medium through which someone expresses their joy. No painting or dancing in the park. [0] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vehicle https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vehicle
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - fvdessen 3y ago
    Are shoes a vehicle ?
    - chii 3y ago
      are the shoes carrying you? Or are you carrying the shoe?
  - kristjansson 3y ago
    “No rhetorical vehicles in the park” is … quite the interpretation
    - HelloMcFly 3y ago
      It's honestly blowing my mind right now that anyone could interpret as a bike as anything but a vehicle. What else would it be? What is a railroad handcar? What is a paddleboat? What is a cycle saloon?
      - evandale 3y ago
        It is a mix of pedantry, iamverysmart, ackshully, treating dictionaries as prescriptive (the English dictionary is _descrptive_ and the French dictionary is _prescriptive_) and a bunch of other nonsense. The entire world agrees bicycles are vehicles and it's encoded in the law almost everywhere. This is no true Scotsman, sure, but IMO if you're trying to argue a bicycle is NOT a vehicle you're only doing it to argue and flex your vast knowledge of the English dictionary to randoms on the internet. It's a completely unreasonable position to hold.
        goodgrieving 3y ago
        I really hate to break this to you, but in no case would I see a sign that said “no vehicles” and hesitate to ride my bicycle right past it. If it applied to bikes, it would say so. This doesn’t take vast knowledge nor is it a flex, I’m saying this is uniformly what I would expect cyclists in all US cities in which I’ve lived to understand as well.
        evandale 3y ago
        That's fine - and I would ignore the sign too but that wasn't the question being asked in this quiz. It explicitly said do you consider a bicycle a vehicle and it is a vehicle by law nearly everywhere. Many roads nowadays have a "one way only - bicycles excepted" to indicate the road is a one way road but bicycles are an exception to the rule and there's a contraflow bike lane. Most parks that have a no vehicles allowed sign is likely to have a bicycle excepted sign underneath. Bicycles are vehicles and there is no ackshully that will change that. If you're trying to win an argument with the technicality that everyone would ignore a "no vehicles" sign on a bike that isn't an argument that disproves a bike is a vehicle. All it shows is that a bike is a special vehicle with special rules and exemptions to "no vehicle" signs.
  - raverbashing 3y ago
    By this rule I can't bring a newspaper into the park > 3. a medium through which something is expressed, achieved, or displayed
    - godelski 3y ago
      A "gotcha" comment, but that only adds to the author's point. Which luckily this wasn't one of the examples. Though see back to my comment about the items I said no for (that aren't confused for being outside the part like the ISS)
  - FartyMcFarter 3y ago
    So no one can bring their legs into the park, as they are a means of transporting things? "Carrier" is also a very broad term, no human carrying anything is allowed in the park then.
    - godelski 3y ago
      I know this is a "gotcha" comment, but it actually only adds to the author's point: language is fuzzy and imprecise. Moreso, that we assume it has far higher precision than it actually does. We can think of communication as having 3 main components. 1) the intended concept being intended to convey. This is in the person's head. 2) The fuzzy compression mode (language) that is used to convey said thought. Be that words, writing, or interpretive dance. 3) The fuzzy decoder that turns the language into a thought in another being's head. This is filled with priors and assumptions that fill in many of the gaps. The thing about this is that we usually learn to speak in pretty localized groups, meaning that our priors align and we have a lot of good faith (attempting to interpret intent rather than interpreting the words). But with a larger audience we have higher variance that makes what is obvious a priori a disastrous outcome. "Everybody knows" is not something everyone knows. https://xkcd.com/1053/ https://xkcd.com/1053/
- Ekaros 3y ago
  Skateboard is harder. But in many many jurisdiction bicycles is explicitly a vehicle. One that people over certain age cannot drive on sidewalks and must use road. Or designated ways. Ofc, it is also banned in some places. Also it sometimes acts unlike pedestrian like having to yield to cars when crossing safety crossings.
- spuz 3y ago
  Obviously some people think bicycles are vehicles and some don't. For this reason, I applied the logic that if the park wanted to ban vehicles including bikes, they would write "No vehicles, no cycles" and so while I think a bike is a vehicle, I don't think it violates the intent behind the "no vehicles" rule.
  - Symbiote 3y ago
    The two traffic signs recognised under international convention are "No vehicles" and "No motor vehicles". The first excludes pedal cycles.
- whelp_24 3y ago
  I similarly can't fathom how a bicycle is anything other than a vehicle. It has wheels and gears, it's a machine, it speeds you up significantly, you get one an off it, you have to learn to ride it, it can carry additional items. And you have to follow traffic rules (which is like circular reasoning but shows that governments say it is a vehicle).
- msm_ 3y ago
  I can't fanthom how a "no vehicles" sign would NOT apply to bicycles. What else would you call a bicycle if not a vehicle? It would be clear to me that park is catering to pedestrians and not cyclists (or car drivers).
  - gameshot911 3y ago
    I'd call it a bicycle.
bscphil 3y ago
> even if they are allowed to break the rule they are still breaking the rule. This is exactly right, I think, and in fact those who are focusing on the "intent" of the rule or on whether a violation of the rule is justified seem to have missed the clear wording of the instructions: > Again, please answer the question of whether the rule is violated (not whether the violation should be allowed). So the only questions that ever enter into it are (a) is this object a vehicle?, and (b) is the object in the park? > a park sign that says no vehicles also applies to bicycles and skateboards. Interesting, my dividing line was that a bike is a vehicle but a wagon, rowboat, or skateboard are not. The majority seems to think both a bicycle and a memorial tank (??!) are not vehicles under the rule.
- sethammons 3y ago
  A non functional tank. It is the same as a painting of a tank or a statue.
  - bscphil 3y ago
    A broken car is still a car! If I pushed a broken down Honda Civic into the park with the gear shift set to neutral and left it there, surely that would break the rule?
    - chipsa 3y ago
      Is a sculpture of a car a vehicle? The broken car is still a car because the intent of the thing is stop to be a car. A memorial tank is not intended to be a vehicle, but rather be a sculpture. A sculpture is usually not a vehicle, even if it may look like one.
- cgriswald 3y ago
  In the absence of a definition of vehicle I chose to define it as any device that is a conveyance. Thus a wagon, rowboat, and skateboard are all vehicles in the park (even if not in use). However, the tank was not functional. Since it cannot convey it is therefore not a conveyance and therefore not a vehicle. It’s only shaped like a familiar one. I matched the majority only 11% of the time.
deleted 3y ago
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owalerys 3y ago
I think it really depends on where you are located. I can't imagine personal wheeled vehicles like bikes and skateboards being prohibited from a park in the Netherlands unless explicitly stated so. On the other hand in suburban Florida biking places is so far out of the norm that it might make sense.
goodpoint 3y ago
No "they are allowed to break the rule" is legally speaking nonsense.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
basch 3y ago
Despite not getting a ton of debate here at the top, bicycle seems like the most contentious answer.

bandofthehawk 3y ago

Even if the park includes a skate park and a bike trail? I guess it depends on what size/type of park you are familiar with.

willsmith72 3y ago

What??? Please explain. I can't fathom how a no vehicles sign would apply to bicycles or skateboards

godelski 3y ago
Allow me to introduce you to the dictionary[0] Vehicle (noun) 1. a means of carrying or transporting something ...such as ... a: motor vehicle ... b: a piece of mechanized equipment 2 : an agent of transmission : carrier 3: a medium through which something is expressed, achieved, or displayed ---------------- You're thinking of specifically a __motorized__ vehicle. Which is a different thing than "vehicle". I think you'll agree that a bicycle and skateboard carry people and transport them. This is the same reason a wagon violates the rule. Almost everything on there was a vehicle. I think the only ambiguous ones are paper airplane, matchbox car, toy boat, and kite and I said those weren't because they can't transport things and are not motorized. But hey, technically they can be a medium through which someone expresses their joy. No painting or dancing in the park. [0] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vehicle https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vehicle
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- fvdessen 3y ago
  Are shoes a vehicle ?
  - chii 3y ago
    are the shoes carrying you? Or are you carrying the shoe?
- kristjansson 3y ago
  “No rhetorical vehicles in the park” is … quite the interpretation
  - HelloMcFly 3y ago
    It's honestly blowing my mind right now that anyone could interpret as a bike as anything but a vehicle. What else would it be? What is a railroad handcar? What is a paddleboat? What is a cycle saloon?
    - evandale 3y ago
      It is a mix of pedantry, iamverysmart, ackshully, treating dictionaries as prescriptive (the English dictionary is _descrptive_ and the French dictionary is _prescriptive_) and a bunch of other nonsense. The entire world agrees bicycles are vehicles and it's encoded in the law almost everywhere. This is no true Scotsman, sure, but IMO if you're trying to argue a bicycle is NOT a vehicle you're only doing it to argue and flex your vast knowledge of the English dictionary to randoms on the internet. It's a completely unreasonable position to hold.
      - goodgrieving 3y ago
        I really hate to break this to you, but in no case would I see a sign that said “no vehicles” and hesitate to ride my bicycle right past it. If it applied to bikes, it would say so. This doesn’t take vast knowledge nor is it a flex, I’m saying this is uniformly what I would expect cyclists in all US cities in which I’ve lived to understand as well.
        evandale 3y ago
        That's fine - and I would ignore the sign too but that wasn't the question being asked in this quiz. It explicitly said do you consider a bicycle a vehicle and it is a vehicle by law nearly everywhere. Many roads nowadays have a "one way only - bicycles excepted" to indicate the road is a one way road but bicycles are an exception to the rule and there's a contraflow bike lane. Most parks that have a no vehicles allowed sign is likely to have a bicycle excepted sign underneath. Bicycles are vehicles and there is no ackshully that will change that. If you're trying to win an argument with the technicality that everyone would ignore a "no vehicles" sign on a bike that isn't an argument that disproves a bike is a vehicle. All it shows is that a bike is a special vehicle with special rules and exemptions to "no vehicle" signs.
- raverbashing 3y ago
  By this rule I can't bring a newspaper into the park > 3. a medium through which something is expressed, achieved, or displayed
  - godelski 3y ago
    A "gotcha" comment, but that only adds to the author's point. Which luckily this wasn't one of the examples. Though see back to my comment about the items I said no for (that aren't confused for being outside the part like the ISS)
- FartyMcFarter 3y ago
  So no one can bring their legs into the park, as they are a means of transporting things? "Carrier" is also a very broad term, no human carrying anything is allowed in the park then.
  - godelski 3y ago
    I know this is a "gotcha" comment, but it actually only adds to the author's point: language is fuzzy and imprecise. Moreso, that we assume it has far higher precision than it actually does. We can think of communication as having 3 main components. 1) the intended concept being intended to convey. This is in the person's head. 2) The fuzzy compression mode (language) that is used to convey said thought. Be that words, writing, or interpretive dance. 3) The fuzzy decoder that turns the language into a thought in another being's head. This is filled with priors and assumptions that fill in many of the gaps. The thing about this is that we usually learn to speak in pretty localized groups, meaning that our priors align and we have a lot of good faith (attempting to interpret intent rather than interpreting the words). But with a larger audience we have higher variance that makes what is obvious a priori a disastrous outcome. "Everybody knows" is not something everyone knows. https://xkcd.com/1053/ https://xkcd.com/1053/
Ekaros 3y ago
Skateboard is harder. But in many many jurisdiction bicycles is explicitly a vehicle. One that people over certain age cannot drive on sidewalks and must use road. Or designated ways. Ofc, it is also banned in some places. Also it sometimes acts unlike pedestrian like having to yield to cars when crossing safety crossings.
spuz 3y ago
Obviously some people think bicycles are vehicles and some don't. For this reason, I applied the logic that if the park wanted to ban vehicles including bikes, they would write "No vehicles, no cycles" and so while I think a bike is a vehicle, I don't think it violates the intent behind the "no vehicles" rule.
- Symbiote 3y ago
  The two traffic signs recognised under international convention are "No vehicles" and "No motor vehicles". The first excludes pedal cycles.
whelp_24 3y ago
I similarly can't fathom how a bicycle is anything other than a vehicle. It has wheels and gears, it's a machine, it speeds you up significantly, you get one an off it, you have to learn to ride it, it can carry additional items. And you have to follow traffic rules (which is like circular reasoning but shows that governments say it is a vehicle).
msm_ 3y ago
I can't fanthom how a "no vehicles" sign would NOT apply to bicycles. What else would you call a bicycle if not a vehicle? It would be clear to me that park is catering to pedestrians and not cyclists (or car drivers).
- gameshot911 3y ago
  I'd call it a bicycle.

bscphil 3y ago

> even if they are allowed to break the rule they are still breaking the rule. This is exactly right, I think, and in fact those who are focusing on the "intent" of the rule or on whether a violation of the rule is justified seem to have missed the clear wording of the instructions: > Again, please answer the question of whether the rule is violated (not whether the violation should be allowed). So the only questions that ever enter into it are (a) is this object a vehicle?, and (b) is the object in the park? > a park sign that says no vehicles also applies to bicycles and skateboards. Interesting, my dividing line was that a bike is a vehicle but a wagon, rowboat, or skateboard are not. The majority seems to think both a bicycle and a memorial tank (??!) are not vehicles under the rule.

sethammons 3y ago
A non functional tank. It is the same as a painting of a tank or a statue.
- bscphil 3y ago
  A broken car is still a car! If I pushed a broken down Honda Civic into the park with the gear shift set to neutral and left it there, surely that would break the rule?
  - chipsa 3y ago
    Is a sculpture of a car a vehicle? The broken car is still a car because the intent of the thing is stop to be a car. A memorial tank is not intended to be a vehicle, but rather be a sculpture. A sculpture is usually not a vehicle, even if it may look like one.
cgriswald 3y ago
In the absence of a definition of vehicle I chose to define it as any device that is a conveyance. Thus a wagon, rowboat, and skateboard are all vehicles in the park (even if not in use). However, the tank was not functional. Since it cannot convey it is therefore not a conveyance and therefore not a vehicle. It’s only shaped like a familiar one. I matched the majority only 11% of the time.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

owalerys 3y ago

I think it really depends on where you are located. I can't imagine personal wheeled vehicles like bikes and skateboards being prohibited from a park in the Netherlands unless explicitly stated so. On the other hand in suburban Florida biking places is so far out of the norm that it might make sense.

goodpoint 3y ago

No "they are allowed to break the rule" is legally speaking nonsense.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

basch 3y ago

Despite not getting a ton of debate here at the top, bicycle seems like the most contentious answer.