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Declassified U.S. report on origins of Covid-19 virus [pdf]
- asylteltine 3y ago[dead]
- userbinator 3y agoIn case anyone else is wondering: I instinctively checked the redacted areas, and there is indeed nothing there but a black rectangle.
- gurchik 3y agoThe last bullet on page 3 (page 4 of the pdf) seems to have a character that was forgotten to be redacted? The same thing happens a few pages later
- smitty1110 3y agoThe 'U' in question stands for "Unclassified" in this case. It's left unredacted on purpose in this case. edit - Still, makes me curious about the redacted parts of those lines.
- heyitsguay 3y agotl;dr probably from a sick animal, maybe from a lab, no smoking gun either way. Probably not engineered or lab-adapted.
- freitzkriesler2 3y ago[flagged]
- johndotsun 3y agoThe virus having been accidentally released from the lab doesn't require that the virus was modified in or by the lab between the time of leak and the time of collection.
- photochemsyn 3y agoNo, but a virus suddenly showing up that was pre-adapted to replication in human bodies and didn't follow the usual zoonotic origin scenario of traceable series of mutations over time in both animal and human hosts, along with the sudden appearance of a furin cleavage site not found in any other relatives of said virus, points to (1) likely serial passage through human-gene-modified mice and human cell cultures and (2) CRISPR-related insertion of a human-like furin cleavage site into the adapted virus. This kind of research is dangerous and the risks far outweigh any putative benefits. There are literally hundreds of mammalian viruses out in nature that pose zero risk to humans but which could be modified by these procedures to generate novel pandemic diseases with which the human immune system has had no prior experience.
- reeaper 3y ago[flagged]
- freitzkriesler2 3y agoGreat comment but the down d00ters can't handle using common sense and will happily swallow any narrative told to them by talking heads.
- baja_blast 3y ago> Probably not engineered or lab-adapted. Despite having a novel furin cleavage site in the exact location as stated in a grant proposal, a furin cleavage site that happens to make the virus extremely infectious towards humans all while leaving no trace of how it adapted this feature. This seems to me more like a desperate attempt to avoid any regulations or attention drawn to this reckless research conducted all over the world!
- lamontcg 3y agoA PRRA furin cleavage site that was a previously unknown sequence and not something that a scientist would have copied off some other virus.
- BasedAnon 3y agoBut one that could definitely emerge via gain of function.
- lamontcg 3y agoNo, it is amazingly unlikely that you'd see an insertion like that arise through some kind of random serial passage. In nature that happens by recombination which takes many millions of infections to emerge. In the lab you are just replicating that process by serial passage through animals where you might have a dozen animals serially infected. And the chances are probably lower because it is less likely the lab animals would wind up coinfected with another virus that would act as the source material. "Gain of function" research isn't magic.
- jimmyswimmy 3y agoA strange document. Clearly written for public release but containing reactions of apparently sensitive clarification markings. Moreover it contains absolutely nothing of well publicized US involvement in relevant coronavirus research with WIV. I'm definitely curious of what DOE facilities have scientists and researchers who would have useful opinions on coronavirus. This article just reminded me more of that question. Very strange paper.
- photochemsyn 3y agoDOE lab Sandia at least was closely involved with analysis of the anthrax powder in the letters mailed to Senators Daschle and Leahy on 10/09/2001. Note that this research didn't support the Bruce Ivins hypothesis as he didn't have the technical capacity required: > "Not only did the Sandia researchers spot silicon, they also found tin, oxygen, and iron all within the spore. The researchers, led by Sandia chemist Joseph Michael, have presented their findings at various scientific meetings since 2008, reporting the presence of all the elements found. But because silicon had always been in the investigative limelight, tin never got much attention. Until now. The new paper puts the spotlight on tin, which the authors claim has been brushed under the carpet by FBI investigators. The FBI has "avoided public mention of the extraordinary presence of Tin," the paper says." https://www.science.org/content/article/new-challenge-fbis-anthrax-investigation-lends-ear-tin https://www.science.org/content/article/new-challenge-fbis-a... While it's perhaps not widely known, the DOE National Labs have the best technical capabilities for investigating anything related to nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons whether of nation-state, terrorist-group, or lone-nut origin.
- shusaku 3y agoIt’s amazing that we’re literally talking about a major geopolitical rival’s negligence leading to the deaths of millions of people, but the right wing talking point continues to be “how can we pin this on Fauci?” Americans have been taught to hate each other more than anyone else.
- civilitty 3y ago[flagged]
- photochemsyn 3y agoDoesn't explain why the WIV database of in-house coronavirus sequences was removed from the web by what, late August 2019? Also molecular clock approaches of known genomic sequences of different Sars-CoV2 isolates point to an emergence somewhere in the Sept-Oct range IIRC, and that's probably an underestimate. The fact that the military took over the labs and their ventilation system was redone around this timeframe also points to the Chinese government knowing they had a problem around three months before it became public knowledge.
- MilnerRoute 3y agoI think the problem is that America's Director of National Intelligence just isn't saying what people had hoped to hear. "We continue to have no indication that the Wuhan Institute of Virology's pre-pandemic research holdings included SARS-CoV-2 or a close progenitor, nor any direct evidence that a specific research-related incident occurred involving WIV personnel before the pandemic that could have caused the COVID pandemic." "All Intelligence Community agencies assess that SARS-CoV-2 was not developed as a biological weapon."
- hotpotamus 3y agoI just read the executive summary, but based on it I'm assuming this is just the bare minimum they're willing to do to comply with some congressional order.
- synetic 3y agoLab leak theorists don’t believe Covid was developed as a weapon. They believe it was an accidental leak from a lab doing normal, non-warfare virological research. The quoted phrasing makes me think that they know it was a leak but redirect the conversation by saying it wasn’t a biological weapon.
- EGG_CREAM 3y agoThey address all of the possibilities. They aren't redirecting, they are being through. Summarizing it, the intro says, "Some agencies think that the first person to get the virus got it naturally, some others think that the first person to get it was exposed to it from the WIV. No agencies think that it was bioengineered."
- nickstinemates 3y agoWhat is the difference between being exposed to it from the WIV and it being bioengineered? GoF research vs. "lab leak?"
- Klinky 3y agoMany conspiracy theorists have claimed it was a bio-weapon, along with other batshit stuff like Bill Gates & 5G. Read both quotes, not just the last one.
- 23B1 3y agoODNI doing the 'ol Potomac two-step.
- bandyaboot 3y agoThis illustrates exactly why this was pointless in the first place. Nobody is going to believe it unless it says what they want to hear.
- EMM_386 3y agoThe Wuhan Institute of Virology was working on adding a unique furin cleavage site to a bat coronoavirus strain to make it bind to human ACE-2 receptors. This is factual, because the grant proposals are out there and DARPA in the US turned them down: https://theintercept.com/2021/09/23/coronavirus-research-grant-darpa/ https://theintercept.com/2021/09/23/coronavirus-research-gra... Suddenly, we have a global pandemic featuring a bat coronavirus with a unique furin cleavage site that binds to human ACE-2 receptors, out of Wuhan, China, directly next to the lab where they were studying this. What are the chances? We know what they were studying because all of the grants, emails, and other information from NIH to EcoHealth Alliance have been acquired via the Freedom of Information Act: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23793974-tobias-v-hhs-21-cv-02805-42823-partial-production_redactedpdf-may-1 https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23793974-tobias-v-hh...
- Klinky 3y agoNeither of those are definitive sources of evidence. Grant proposals that were denied and statements that the furin site could've evolved naturally or been lab manipulated, aren't really evidence that COVID-19 leaked from a lab.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- colechristensen 3y agoDefinitive proof? No. Damning evidence? Yes.
- Klinky 3y agoIt's not damning evidence either.
- rekttrader 3y agoThat’s absurd.
- ed25519FUUU 3y agoIt’s sad this became so political with people. Total brain rot.
- _-____-_ 3y agoI don't even understand why it became political. What incentive do people on the left have to deny the obvious conclusion that it came from the lab?
- asynchronous 3y ago[Current thing] says X. You must follow [current thing]. Critical thinking not allowed.
- metamet 3y agoI think there's some confusion and rewriting of history going on here. The left wasn't denying the possibility that it leaked from the Wuhan lab. This was a theory very early on and it wasn't "denied" more that it wasn't substantiated. It became political when it was asserted by people on the right, without any actual research or investigation, that was an intentional release from China. Majority of that blame falls on Trump's inability to understand or articulate nuanced topics, particularly within geopolitical contexts. Instead of figuring out how to defeat the virus, majority of their energy went into pointing the finger at who to blame--a far easier task than being an actual leader.
- baumy 3y agoCandidly, I think that this comment is actually the one rewriting history. There absolutely, 100% was complete denial, all originating on the political left, that a leak from a lab in China was a possibility. No confusion about intentional vs accidental - total denial of the possibility in any way shape or form. Suggesting it was possible, much less plausible or even likely, was labeled racist. Attempts were made (with limited success) to suppress discussion about it, by removing the topic from social media feed recommendations and what not. Someone else can look up sources for all of this if they want, but I don't feel the need to. It was just a couple years ago, and I remember it perfectly. I presume you just spend your time consuming healthier discourse than I do, which probably means you make some better choices in your free time than I do, so I'm not accusing you personally of this - but the walking back of all the effort made to deny and suppress discussion about this issue and pretend it never happened feels a lot like gaslighting.
- SaintSeiya 3y ago[flagged]
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- asynchronous 3y agoOff topic, does anyone else remember the videos from December/January 2020 coming from China that showed young healthy adults dropping dead in the streets like it was a zombie plague? Going off of China’s own numbers, none of that was reality, so what the heck was that? Some ridiculous psyop? For what purpose? To what end?
- Sebguer 3y agoAre you sure you didn't just watch Contagion and get confused? I do not recall anything of this sort, in fact until March 2020, no one thought Covid was anything serious as far as I can really remember. I recall most people believing my employer over-reacted when they shut down the offices. I don't think people would have felt this way if what you were describing had been a thing.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- BryantD 3y agoEric Raymond was spreading rumors about these videos in February 2020: http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=8587 http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=8587 (Note that there were some people advancing the bioweapon theory, although I won’t argue with anyone who says esr’s comment section was populated by fringe conspiracy theorists by 2020.)
- 2-718-281-828 3y agoyes, i was also wondering about that. but i remember mostly videos of elderly people suddenly dropping dead.
- nomel 3y ago> Going off of China’s own numbers Why would you do that? Their numbers are factually fiction [1]. I know someone who had weekly reports, through their business relations, of where outbreaks were when, according to China, there were zero cases and deaths. They weren’t allowed to travel or do business in those areas. [1] https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/30/asia/wuhan-china-covid-intl/index.html?utm_term=link&utm_source=twCNN&utm_content=2020-11-30T21%3A58%3A06&utm_medium=social https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/30/asia/wuhan-china-covid-intl/i...
- shaboinkin 3y ago> Some of the WIV's genetic engineering projects on coronaviruses involved techniques that could make it difficult to detect intentional changes. A 2017 dissertation by a WIV student showed that reverse genetic cloning techniques which are standard techniques used in advanced molecular laboratories left no traces of genetic modification of SARS-like coronaviruses. What practical, beneficial purpose would this serve?
- georgeg23 3y agoIt's a characteristic of a technique, it doesn't need to have a purpose. Not all things have a purpose.
- rich_sasha 3y agoAs a non-American, I find it frustrating how American partisanship hijacked this discussion. Forget Republicans and Democrats. A priori, a lab leak, at least accidental,.is a totally plausible hypothesis. Evidence is hard to find either way so who knows. But then these became shibboleths for American polarisation and you can't say "lab leak" without being labelled a white supremacist. I'm not saying it did or did not happen, only that there is no substantive evidence for any one hypothesis so it's ok to consider other ones.
- D13Fd 3y agoI agree with all that. But there is also the question: why should we care? What difference does it make now?
- jaybrendansmith 3y agoIt does matter. Because if it came from a lab, it means the restrictions and regulations surrounding that lab were completely insufficient to contain the leak. It means that we are all under a constant threat that other, worse leaks, will happen, and that millions have died and a good percentage of the GDP of the entire world was lost due to gain of function experiments done without enough precaution. It deeply matters, and if we are adults we need to handle this with investigations and preventative action plans and a global regulatory framework.
- D13Fd 3y agoI would say that I don’t think it matters whether it was a lab leak or not, COVID shows that we shouldn’t be doing this kind of research either way.
- jaybrendansmith 3y agoThis research allowed us to create a vaccine within weeks of discovery. If this was not a lab leak, and we had not done that research, many might still be dying from Covid-19. But it's clear that governments cannot afford to allow even a single research facility to be un-regulated or poorly managed.
- ldehaan 3y ago[dead]
- Giorgi 3y agoYes it was Chinese.
- quattrofan 3y ago[dead]