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An excerpt from an email Stockton Rush sent out, according to the article (emphasis mine): >I have grown tired of industry players who try to use a safety argu

An excerpt from an email Stockton Rush sent out, according to the article (emphasis mine): >I have grown tired of industry players who try to use a safety argument to stop innovation and new entrants from entering their small existing market. Since Guillermo and I started OceanGate we have heard the baseless cries of "you are going to kill someone" way too often. I take this as a serious personal insult. Just... wow.

Nux 3y ago
A bet gone wrong.. Many innovations started off in a similar manner, ignoring or challenging the status quo.. That said, it's mighty spectacular and sad the way he was proven wrong. rip.
- ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
  more to the point, taking safety warnings as a personal insult is a red flag for literally dangerous narcissism
  - freedomben 3y ago
    > taking safety warnings as a personal insult is a red flag for literally dangerous narcissism It certainly can be, but I have worked with people that absolutely use "safety" as a reason not to do anything, or as a reason to shoot down ideas from people they are competing against (different departments, possible promotions, etc). Like most things in life, this is not black or white, it's some shade of gray.
    - joelegner 3y ago
      Are you talking about life safety or some other kind of safety? “Safety” is a word having many different senses. Your mentioning of promotions and competing ideas makes it seem to me you are using safety in a much broader sense than the sense of safety one would have in mind when talking about submarines occupied by humans.
    - ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
      > I have worked with people that absolutely use "safety" as a reason not to do anything, or as a reason to shoot down ideas from people they are competing against this is literally the exact same argument used by the CEO before he and several others died due to it he was so insulted that experienced and qualified personnel were just trying to shoot down his idea even if you believe this is the case in a given hypothetic, it's still not a valid reason to take it as an attack on you as a person, vs. a concern about a thing
- add-sub-mul-div 3y ago
  If cutting corners is considered an innovation, then it needs to be treated differently than other types of innovation. And not fall under this umbrella of "oh well he tried, nothing ventured nothing gained."
  - WillPostForFood 3y ago
    Was using carbon fiber cutting corners? It seems like it is a more exotic and expensive construction than just using steel. It was innovation for innovation's sake.
    - dingus-kahn 3y ago
      When you're talking about 6,500psi of pressure carbon fiber is cheaper than titanium. Also the fact that they skipped non-destructive testing, void checking, nor did they have the hull inspected after each dive means they were certainly cutting corners.
- plagiarist 3y ago
  It is challenging the status quo when it's an economic or sociology argument against your product. When there is a mechanical engineering argument against your product, that is something else.
- nitwit005 3y ago
  They didn't need to take a bet though. It's not like early aircraft, where someone had to be there to steer. They could have run unmanned trials. Apparently that was the plan. The CEO scrapped the idea and fired the engineer who suggested it was a safety problem (he filed a whistleblower lawsuit).
belter 3y ago
That is what a degree in Aerospace Engineering from Princeton University gives you...
politelemon 3y ago
I keep wondering if that person thought about the cut corners and his general attitude while going through his final moments, or perhaps it never occurred to him as he was simply focused on survival.
- polishdude20 3y ago
  With an implosion of a carbon fiber hull, there probably wasn't enough time to even think of his mistakes let alone the words "oh fuck".
  - kataklasm 3y ago
    Apparently the crew commissioned an emergency ascent right before implosion, suggesting they had a warning of some kind (hearing the ongoing delamination, maybe? scary thought).
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]

Nux 3y ago

A bet gone wrong.. Many innovations started off in a similar manner, ignoring or challenging the status quo.. That said, it's mighty spectacular and sad the way he was proven wrong. rip.

ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
more to the point, taking safety warnings as a personal insult is a red flag for literally dangerous narcissism
- freedomben 3y ago
  > taking safety warnings as a personal insult is a red flag for literally dangerous narcissism It certainly can be, but I have worked with people that absolutely use "safety" as a reason not to do anything, or as a reason to shoot down ideas from people they are competing against (different departments, possible promotions, etc). Like most things in life, this is not black or white, it's some shade of gray.
  - joelegner 3y ago
    Are you talking about life safety or some other kind of safety? “Safety” is a word having many different senses. Your mentioning of promotions and competing ideas makes it seem to me you are using safety in a much broader sense than the sense of safety one would have in mind when talking about submarines occupied by humans.
  - ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
    > I have worked with people that absolutely use "safety" as a reason not to do anything, or as a reason to shoot down ideas from people they are competing against this is literally the exact same argument used by the CEO before he and several others died due to it he was so insulted that experienced and qualified personnel were just trying to shoot down his idea even if you believe this is the case in a given hypothetic, it's still not a valid reason to take it as an attack on you as a person, vs. a concern about a thing
add-sub-mul-div 3y ago
If cutting corners is considered an innovation, then it needs to be treated differently than other types of innovation. And not fall under this umbrella of "oh well he tried, nothing ventured nothing gained."
- WillPostForFood 3y ago
  Was using carbon fiber cutting corners? It seems like it is a more exotic and expensive construction than just using steel. It was innovation for innovation's sake.
  - dingus-kahn 3y ago
    When you're talking about 6,500psi of pressure carbon fiber is cheaper than titanium. Also the fact that they skipped non-destructive testing, void checking, nor did they have the hull inspected after each dive means they were certainly cutting corners.
plagiarist 3y ago
It is challenging the status quo when it's an economic or sociology argument against your product. When there is a mechanical engineering argument against your product, that is something else.
nitwit005 3y ago
They didn't need to take a bet though. It's not like early aircraft, where someone had to be there to steer. They could have run unmanned trials. Apparently that was the plan. The CEO scrapped the idea and fired the engineer who suggested it was a safety problem (he filed a whistleblower lawsuit).

belter 3y ago

That is what a degree in Aerospace Engineering from Princeton University gives you...

politelemon 3y ago

I keep wondering if that person thought about the cut corners and his general attitude while going through his final moments, or perhaps it never occurred to him as he was simply focused on survival.

polishdude20 3y ago
With an implosion of a carbon fiber hull, there probably wasn't enough time to even think of his mistakes let alone the words "oh fuck".
- kataklasm 3y ago
  Apparently the crew commissioned an emergency ascent right before implosion, suggesting they had a warning of some kind (hearing the ongoing delamination, maybe? scary thought).
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]