5 ms·
Patent for their hull monitoring system: https://patents.google.com/patent/US11119071B1/en https://patents.google.com/patent/US11119071B1/en
by dpedu 3y ago
Patent for their hull monitoring system:
https://patents.google.com/patent/US11119071B1/en https://patents.google.com/patent/US11119071B1/en
- post-it 3y agoHighly innovative! Instead of their sudden death being a complete surprise, they may have had a few awful moments of warning.
- DebtDeflation 3y agoThe engineer who worked on it said it would provide only milliseconds of warning before the hull collapsed. He was promptly fired.
- krasin 3y agoSource? (the story does sound plausible, but having a source would be helpful)
- lamontcg 3y agohttps://www.cbsnews.com/news/missing-titanic-submarine-oceangate-safety-warnings-lawsuits/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/missing-titanic-submarine-ocean...
- Grazester 3y agoRead that also, can't remember where.
- kayodelycaon 3y agohttps://fortune.com/2023/06/21/titan-titanic-missing-sub-david-lochridge-safety-concerns-sacked-oceangate-stockton-rush-hamish-harding/amp/ https://fortune.com/2023/06/21/titan-titanic-missing-sub-dav...
- komadori 3y ago> Lochridge had alleged major safety issues: there had been almost no unmanned testing of the craft; the alarm system would only sound off “milliseconds” before an implosion https://www.forbes.com/sites/katherinehamilton/2023/06/21/oceangate-employee-warned-of-major-safety-issues-with-titan-sub-in-2018-he-was-soon-fired/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/katherinehamilton/2023/06/21/oc...
- DebtDeflation 3y agohttps://www.cnn.com/2023/06/23/us/oceangate-submersible-titanic-safety-invs/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/23/us/oceangate-submersible-tita... >Lochridge also questioned OceanGate’s plans to install a monitoring system on the vessel to detect the start of hull breakdown. His court filing argued “this type of acoustic analysis would only show when a component is about to fail—often milliseconds before an implosion—and would not detect any existing flaws prior to putting pressure onto the hull.”
- mytailorisrich 3y agoFound this article [1] about the employee where this "millisecond warning" is mentioned. It's been in most media on the past few days. And yes, one has to wonder about a warning system that does not warm in advance and which operates in situations where no-one can do anything about it, anyway... [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/katherinehamilton/2023/06/21/oceangate-employee-warned-of-major-safety-issues-with-titan-sub-in-2018-he-was-soon-fired/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/katherinehamilton/2023/06/21/oc... Edit: oh dear flood of replies!
- Johnny555 3y agoI'd be more interested in a source that shows that such a warning system could give a usable warning timeframe at great depths under the sea.
- bradgessler 3y agoJust enough time to hear the "Bu" from "Buzz"
- quickthrower2 3y agoI had to check if sound travels fast enough. Just about, yes. Half a millisec to go 1.5m.
- ikiris 3y agoBetter than being crushed like their CEO.
- eterm 3y agoWouldn't they have communicated that back if they had? There wasn't even an "Uh-oh", as far as we know.
- tverbeure 3y agoIt takes longer than a few milliseconds to say "Uh-oh", probably.
- sharikous 3y agoI remember seeing in the news that it is possible they released the ballast before the implosion, according to the findings, and they may have done that because of a warning
- ineedasername 3y agoIn which case the fired engineer could have been off by orders of magnitude, and the crew actually had multiple seconds in which to feel they might avert disaster as they mashed the X button on the Logitech game controller to release the ballast.
- georgemcbay 3y agoJames Cameron has been giving various interviews where he speculates they probably audibly heard the delamination occurring with enough time to cause them to drop the weights and try to abort based on what he's hearing from people in the know within the circle of deep sea explorers involved in the search and rescue. None of this validates using the audio sensor as a warning system because whether you have milliseconds or as much as a couple of minutes warning prior to rapid decompression makes no difference at the depth it occurred, but it does suggest the passengers knew they were doomed prior to the actual decompression.
- sangnoir 3y ago> [...]minutes warning prior to rapid decompression Do you mean rapid compression (i e. implosion)? The internal pressure in such subs is kept at roughly 1 atmosphere at all depths. The massive pressure difference at depth is why hull integrity is of the utmost importance, if it's compromised, things go south rapidly.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- mechhacker 3y agoSaw this today. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mSq6ibKKXQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mSq6ibKKXQ
- ARandomerDude 3y agoThat’s pretty wild. The operator was able to tell when they were going deeper based on the sound of the carbon fibers cracking in the hull.
- Alupis 3y agoThese sort of sounds occur even in metal (steel/titanium) submersibles.
- TheCondor 3y agoTrue. Those metals have flex and recovery to them though, not nearly as rigid as carbon fiber FWIW, archers tap or attempt to flex arrows and listen to them to tell if the carbon has cracked. An intact arrow will flex a little, silently where damaged ones will crackle and sometimes splinter or shatter.
- Gwypaas 3y agoWhich is why the aviation industry is extremely careful. The limit for steel is like 80% for it to recover while for aluminum it is 20-30%. Not including micro cracks. Thus you need to carefully control the number of cycles, which the aviation industry is extremely diligent about.
- mrguyorama 3y agoNavy subs literally deform while diving. If you tie a string tight from one bulkhead to another (from left to right, not front to back), as you dive, the string will go slack and you can tug on it. Destin (smarter every day) demonstrates this in one of his submarine videos.
- _yb2s 3y ago
- swayvil 3y agoWith the right waveform analysis algorithm you could monitor stress, cracks and the progress thereof. Get more warning.
- michaelt 3y agoIt's true - for example, waveform analysis that detected the CEO saying "bringing an outside entity up to speed on every innovation before it is put into real-world testing is anathema to rapid innovation" could have raised warnings as much as four years before the fatal accident.
- jonathankoren 3y agoPerhaps in with other materials, but the pressure vessel was made out of carbon fiber, and carbon fiber splinters with almost no warning. https://youtu.be/DM6J-yw8yjA?t=65 https://youtu.be/DM6J-yw8yjA?t=65
- kergonath 3y agoWhich is helpful if the material is somewhat ductile. That’s what they do with aircrafts that are checked for microcracks. In a brittle material such as carbon fibre composites, the step between “a crack appears” and “the whole piece shatters” is typically measured in milliseconds. So monitoring crack propagation is not that useful. Both stresses and strains would look completely normal up until the point of failure. It’s the same for the bond between the titanium and carbon composite bits. These things deform differently and at different rates. Stress monitoring is much more difficult than in a single piece.
- bmurray7jhu 3y agoThe acoustic signature predictive of a material compromise or potential failure may include a large magnitude, high frequency acoustic burst followed by a sustained interval of acoustic signals of slightly lower magnitude and high frequency, but still well above a predetermined healthy structure condition. The patent concedes that a structural failure may be presaged by a "large magnitude ... burst", but does contemplate thst such a burst may be unsurvivable.
- mrguyorama 3y agoThat makes no sense. Carbon fiber is not known to fail under max load gracefully.