5 ms·

Most old engineers I’ve worked with are terrible and many younger ones are way more talented.

Swinx43 3y ago
Your troll craft is somewhat lacking
housemusicfan 3y ago
This is the attitude you need to give birth to truly innovative ideas like a Bluetooth controller attached to the desktop PC that controlled his hunk of shit submarine that killed everyone on board. He proudly describes it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClkytJa0ghc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClkytJa0ghc
- mulmen 3y ago
  Does he ever explain why carbon fiber and bluetooth were improvements over working technology?
  - Hamuko 3y ago
    I remember seeing a claim that the Bluetooth part was a feature since you could just "pass the controller" inside the cabin but I haven't been able to find a source for it. As for the carbon fibre: >OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush says the company had been evaluating the potential of using a carbon fiber composite hull since 2010, primarily because it permits creation of a pressure vessel that is naturally buoyant and, therefore, would enable OceanGate to forgo the use — and the significant expense — of syntactic foam on its exterior. So, for Cyclops 2 OceanGate decided to avoid the metallic hull altogether and began a search for a manufacturer that could help it develop a composite hull. https://www.compositesworld.com/articles/composite-submersibles-under-pressure-in-deep-deep-waters https://www.compositesworld.com/articles/composite-submersib...
    - mulmen 3y ago
      Thanks for the citation. Handing the controller around smells like marketing wank, especially when you learn they bolted down the shitter and made the controls remote. Seems like an odd tradeoff. I’d be inclined to use a portable toilet or diapers and firmly attach the controls to the sub near the only window. People can still take turns.
    - mcast 3y ago
      It kind of makes sense considering the only viewport is on the opposite side of the submarine away from the PCs which interface with the controls. Maybe the intent was for someone to peak out the window to perform a maneuver. Still, I hope there was a wired controller as a backup just in case.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
    - ciropantera 3y ago
      > I remember seeing a claim that the Bluetooth part was a feature since you could just "pass the controller" inside the cabin but I haven't been able to find a source for it. Here: https://youtu.be/ClkytJa0ghc?t=40 https://youtu.be/ClkytJa0ghc?t=40
  - housemusicfan 3y ago
    I read somewhere that by reducing the weight of the hull, it eliminated the need for the expensive tooling traditionally needed on the mothership to hoist the vessel in and out of the water. This was key to the business model of his shoestring budget amusement park ride to the bottom of the sea.
    - logifail 3y ago
      > amusement park ride I would wager that safety is better - not least because standards are tougher - on almost every amusement ride around.
      - midoridensha 3y ago
        "Carnival park ride" would have been more apt. Those things aren't nearly as safe as the rides at real amusement parks.
  - DonHopkins 3y ago
    To lower costs in order to attract more billionaire customers.
  - joezydeco 3y ago
    Is it possible that you can keep the carbon fiber hull as a solid piece with no penetrations, making it more watertight? I kind of envision this craft as being a sealed capsule full of humans with all the propulsion equipment and batteries strapped to the outside and controlled wirelessly from the inside. But I haven't seen a full diagram of how Oceangate worked. Like, how did CO2 get scrubbed from the cabin?
  - salawat 3y ago
    The carbon fiber obviated the need for expensive to produce syntactic foams. The Bluetooth? Eh. It was there. The sad thing is, the carbon fiber hull material may not necessarily be a totally losing proposition if you can make the carbon fiber hull module swappable and recyclable, and testable. Evidently they got, what? 20ish descents to service depth before it lost integrity? If you worked from there, and figured out those pesky details, you could make something workable. In fact, we may even be lauding the man if they'd done the 30 + journeys to service depth unmanned, and used the data collected from scanning/ultrasounding or otherwise probing that hull piece to draw strong, clear, unambiguous bars around "number of trips til new hull needs to be swapped in". Nobody would fault the guy for doing that, and he may have truly advanced the State of the Art in ways he'd still be alive to enjoy. But here we are.
- can16358p 3y ago
  I do agree with you, though I think BT game controller wasn't a bad idea for two reasons: - Battle-tested and easily replaceable, compared to a custom one. - Cables have a snapping risk in that limited physical space, Bluetooth solves it and there's no risk of EMI 4km underwater anyway. The carbonfiber structure... that's another story. Terrible.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - dharmab 3y ago
    The Logitech F710 was not a "battle-tested" controller, it's a cheap third party controller of inferior quality. The official Microsoft controllers have serious R&D behind them, but not the Logitech ones.
    - heeen2 3y ago
      third party doesn't mean anything if you're not controlling a first party device
      - m-p-3 3y ago
        He's right on the cheap part though, I had that controller and it will sometimes looks connection, making you spin around as if you kept the joystick in position. I threw that thing away..
    - can16358p 3y ago
      Logitech is a reputable brand making reliable components, not like those Chinese weird brands. It is battle tested by being used by so many people around the world. I don't understand what you imply by "3rd party". 3rd party in relation to what exactly in this context?
      - dharmab 3y ago
        In gaming, 3rd party accessories are ones nit made by the manufacturer of the game system. The first party is the console manufacturer (Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo) and the second party is the end user. Logitech makes some great mice but their game controllers are notoriously poor quality for the price, especially since the first party controllers aren't much more expensive. Some of the "weird brand" gamepads like 8bitdo are considered better than Logitech or even Nintendo!
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
jb1991 3y ago
The situation is quite often the exact opposite: young engineers often fail to see the big picture and don’t know how to find the adequate architecture or approach to solve a problem in a genuine way, while experienced engineers will have a natural, intuitive approach that works easily. I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve looked at a project by some engineer in their 20s, and it is so over-engineered and complicated, entirely lacking in any ability to future proof against onboarding or feature development, so clever they probably are very proud of themselves, but mostly useless.
- dizhn 3y ago
  Less experienced people probably start with a design that looks like it might do what they need.Then they keep tacking on things as they hit limitations. This might be the right approach but an experienced person would know when to cut their losses and start over. A desperate newcomer would double down on adding shit leading to a convoluted complex mess.
jb1991 3y ago
And what do you think happens to those talented young engineers when they get older? Are they no longer talented, just old?
- whatscooking 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - jb1991 3y ago
    What a remarkable distortion of humanity.
DonHopkins 3y ago
Sounds like you need to find a better job. Good luck, with that attitude.
vGPU 3y ago
Are you seriously trying to suggest that less experienced engineers are better than more experienced engineers? Hubris like this will leave you joining the other ghosts floating around the wreck of the titanic shortly.

Your troll craft is somewhat lacking

This is the attitude you need to give birth to truly innovative ideas like a Bluetooth controller attached to the desktop PC that controlled his hunk of shit submarine that killed everyone on board. He proudly describes it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClkytJa0ghc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClkytJa0ghc

mulmen 3y ago
Does he ever explain why carbon fiber and bluetooth were improvements over working technology?
- Hamuko 3y ago
  I remember seeing a claim that the Bluetooth part was a feature since you could just "pass the controller" inside the cabin but I haven't been able to find a source for it. As for the carbon fibre: >OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush says the company had been evaluating the potential of using a carbon fiber composite hull since 2010, primarily because it permits creation of a pressure vessel that is naturally buoyant and, therefore, would enable OceanGate to forgo the use — and the significant expense — of syntactic foam on its exterior. So, for Cyclops 2 OceanGate decided to avoid the metallic hull altogether and began a search for a manufacturer that could help it develop a composite hull. https://www.compositesworld.com/articles/composite-submersibles-under-pressure-in-deep-deep-waters https://www.compositesworld.com/articles/composite-submersib...
  - mulmen 3y ago
    Thanks for the citation. Handing the controller around smells like marketing wank, especially when you learn they bolted down the shitter and made the controls remote. Seems like an odd tradeoff. I’d be inclined to use a portable toilet or diapers and firmly attach the controls to the sub near the only window. People can still take turns.
  - mcast 3y ago
    It kind of makes sense considering the only viewport is on the opposite side of the submarine away from the PCs which interface with the controls. Maybe the intent was for someone to peak out the window to perform a maneuver. Still, I hope there was a wired controller as a backup just in case.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - ciropantera 3y ago
    > I remember seeing a claim that the Bluetooth part was a feature since you could just "pass the controller" inside the cabin but I haven't been able to find a source for it. Here: https://youtu.be/ClkytJa0ghc?t=40 https://youtu.be/ClkytJa0ghc?t=40
- housemusicfan 3y ago
  I read somewhere that by reducing the weight of the hull, it eliminated the need for the expensive tooling traditionally needed on the mothership to hoist the vessel in and out of the water. This was key to the business model of his shoestring budget amusement park ride to the bottom of the sea.
  - logifail 3y ago
    > amusement park ride I would wager that safety is better - not least because standards are tougher - on almost every amusement ride around.
    - midoridensha 3y ago
      "Carnival park ride" would have been more apt. Those things aren't nearly as safe as the rides at real amusement parks.
- DonHopkins 3y ago
  To lower costs in order to attract more billionaire customers.
- joezydeco 3y ago
  Is it possible that you can keep the carbon fiber hull as a solid piece with no penetrations, making it more watertight? I kind of envision this craft as being a sealed capsule full of humans with all the propulsion equipment and batteries strapped to the outside and controlled wirelessly from the inside. But I haven't seen a full diagram of how Oceangate worked. Like, how did CO2 get scrubbed from the cabin?
- salawat 3y ago
  The carbon fiber obviated the need for expensive to produce syntactic foams. The Bluetooth? Eh. It was there. The sad thing is, the carbon fiber hull material may not necessarily be a totally losing proposition if you can make the carbon fiber hull module swappable and recyclable, and testable. Evidently they got, what? 20ish descents to service depth before it lost integrity? If you worked from there, and figured out those pesky details, you could make something workable. In fact, we may even be lauding the man if they'd done the 30 + journeys to service depth unmanned, and used the data collected from scanning/ultrasounding or otherwise probing that hull piece to draw strong, clear, unambiguous bars around "number of trips til new hull needs to be swapped in". Nobody would fault the guy for doing that, and he may have truly advanced the State of the Art in ways he'd still be alive to enjoy. But here we are.
can16358p 3y ago
I do agree with you, though I think BT game controller wasn't a bad idea for two reasons: - Battle-tested and easily replaceable, compared to a custom one. - Cables have a snapping risk in that limited physical space, Bluetooth solves it and there's no risk of EMI 4km underwater anyway. The carbonfiber structure... that's another story. Terrible.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- dharmab 3y ago
  The Logitech F710 was not a "battle-tested" controller, it's a cheap third party controller of inferior quality. The official Microsoft controllers have serious R&D behind them, but not the Logitech ones.
  - heeen2 3y ago
    third party doesn't mean anything if you're not controlling a first party device
    - m-p-3 3y ago
      He's right on the cheap part though, I had that controller and it will sometimes looks connection, making you spin around as if you kept the joystick in position. I threw that thing away..
  - can16358p 3y ago
    Logitech is a reputable brand making reliable components, not like those Chinese weird brands. It is battle tested by being used by so many people around the world. I don't understand what you imply by "3rd party". 3rd party in relation to what exactly in this context?
    - dharmab 3y ago
      In gaming, 3rd party accessories are ones nit made by the manufacturer of the game system. The first party is the console manufacturer (Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo) and the second party is the end user. Logitech makes some great mice but their game controllers are notoriously poor quality for the price, especially since the first party controllers aren't much more expensive. Some of the "weird brand" gamepads like 8bitdo are considered better than Logitech or even Nintendo!

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

jb1991 3y ago

The situation is quite often the exact opposite: young engineers often fail to see the big picture and don’t know how to find the adequate architecture or approach to solve a problem in a genuine way, while experienced engineers will have a natural, intuitive approach that works easily. I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve looked at a project by some engineer in their 20s, and it is so over-engineered and complicated, entirely lacking in any ability to future proof against onboarding or feature development, so clever they probably are very proud of themselves, but mostly useless.

dizhn 3y ago
Less experienced people probably start with a design that looks like it might do what they need.Then they keep tacking on things as they hit limitations. This might be the right approach but an experienced person would know when to cut their losses and start over. A desperate newcomer would double down on adding shit leading to a convoluted complex mess.

jb1991 3y ago

And what do you think happens to those talented young engineers when they get older? Are they no longer talented, just old?

whatscooking 3y ago
[flagged]
- jb1991 3y ago
  What a remarkable distortion of humanity.

DonHopkins 3y ago

Sounds like you need to find a better job. Good luck, with that attitude.

vGPU 3y ago

Are you seriously trying to suggest that less experienced engineers are better than more experienced engineers? Hubris like this will leave you joining the other ghosts floating around the wreck of the titanic shortly.