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I don't think they were pretending to look, they were just (rightly) remaining open to it being either rescue or recovery. From the article: > “While not defin

I don't think they were pretending to look, they were just (rightly) remaining open to it being either rescue or recovery. From the article: > “While not definitive, this information was immediately shared with the Incident Commander to assist with the ongoing search and rescue mission.” So: * They knew about it and quickly aided in the search. * They did not broadcast the details of the collection to the public. That seems like the right call to me.

ALittleLight 3y ago
[flagged]
- dazilcher 3y ago
  Certainty.
- tw04 3y ago
  Because they wanted to at least give a few days to find conclusive proof (wreckage) so they could inform the family's before all of us?
  - ALittleLight 3y ago
    "Hey, we're pretty sure your family is dead, because we heard them die, but we're going to give you a few days of thinking they're suffocating to death in a cold dark can because..." This is just reasoning after the fact. It doesn't make sense to conceal evidence. If this used some secret technology, okay, why say it publicly now? If it's okay to be public, why not a few days ago?
    - satisfice 3y ago
      They certainly told the family about the implosion noise, because I heard one of the expert commentators remark on how he knew about it prior to the news about the knocking noises. If he knew, the family knew. I think they were just holding out hope that it wasn’t an implosion noise.
      - ALittleLight 3y ago
        It's fine to hold out hope, but there's no point to concealing evidence. Why not report what's actually happening to the best of your knowledge?
        satisfice 3y ago
        I agree.
    - Ratiofarmings 3y ago
      Because dealing with it internally and informing the public are two entirely different things. They may well have told the families some things, but not the public. Afterall this is a privately funded venture and the rescue effort isn't going to be paid for by the public either. They owe us nothing.
      - ragingrobot 3y ago
        > They owe us nothing. Agreed. We seem, as a culture, to feel we're owed, or entitled, to everything nowaways. By releasing this information, there would have possible been a massive outcry by the (unconcerned) public and the families involved that the parties involved weren't doing enough. Everyone would have hopped on the "you're too slow to act" bandwagon. This despite not having any knowledge or expertise in the area. They may have created some headaches at this point, but saved themselves a lot of undeserved headaches and media criticism by not releasing info earlier.
      - redeeman 3y ago
        > They owe us nothing. Are you referring to the actual "government" ? because in that case, it definitely seems like they owe their own citizens something?
        pohl 3y ago
        They do, but what they owe differs by what part of the government one is dealing with. You’ll find that, with regards to the military, one thing they do not owe to citizens is real-time, unfettered access to intelligence.
      - trogdor 3y ago
        >the rescue effort isn't going to be paid for by the public either That is not true. The federal government does not charge for search and rescue. Why do you believe otherwise?
    - tw04 3y ago
      "Hey we heard a loud boom that may or may not mean your family is dead, and we have no other source of confirmation at this point but just stew on that for a few days while we try to confirm." Do you have NO empathy? Why would they tell the family they think everyone is dead without verifiable proof and within the window in which they could still be alive? (4 days of oxygen). What is the benefit beyond a bunch of virtual gawkers getting slightly more information slightly quicker?
      - ALittleLight 3y ago
        I'm rolling my eyes at the "Do you have NO empathy" bit. Is it empathy that drives one to lie by omission to obfuscate the death of others? Is that the word for it? You don't have to tell the family you're certain they are dead, if you aren't, but you should tell the family "We heard a sound consistent with implosion at the same time we simultaneously lost communications and telemetry from the sub. The most rational explanation is that they are all dead." Once you've told the family, you should tell the public. What people are engaging in here, you included, is some kind of baffling Just World bias. That is, this unusual circumstance has happened - the sub imploded, the government knew, the government waited days to tell the public, and now you and others are defending the government's actions - as if, because it happened this way it must be justified in happening this way. In reality, of course, it's completely irrational - that's why you don't even bother to defend the course of events rather than imply I lack empathy (which, again, backwards because you are defending lying to the bereaved for no gain, in order to deceive them into believing their loved ones are huddled in the cold and dark and slowly suffocating when you know they are not). There is absolutely no reason to temporarily conceal the deaths. The government should have notified the families with their information, and then the public.
- awb 3y ago
  Probably a mixture of declassification procedures, no imminent danger to the public and a desire to confirm the incident visually before giving up hope.
  - pfannkuchen 3y ago
    Don’t forget bureaucracy!
- danso 3y ago
  Why is the Navy obligated to say something before the wreck is found? Coast Guard was still going to do a search anyway, and it’s not as if tiktokers were sailing out to help with the search. The US government did reject the OceanGate’s and Explorer’s Group request for military airlifts, so it’s possible the Navy intel played a part in saving those resources from being pointlessly expended https://twitter.com/NewsNation/status/1670998331663994882?s=20 https://twitter.com/NewsNation/status/1670998331663994882?s=... edit: added “not” to the tiktokers doing a search
- afavour 3y ago
  I’d flip it: what’s the point in informing the public about something you’re not definitive about? Particularly when lives are at stake.
  - ALittleLight 3y ago
    They heard the implosion at the same time they lost contact with the sub. Why not say that? There is neither added nor diminished risk to life by revealing or concealing that. As for what the point of informing the public is - the government serves the public and the public was interested. Without a compelling reason to keep information secret the government should share. As
    - aredox 3y ago
      Your voyeurism is annoying and very off-putting. Find yourself saner hobbies.
      - ALittleLight 3y ago
        4/5 of your last comments are about this topic. The government shouldn't conceal information to mislead the public without some compelling reason. Since no reason exists here, the government shouldn't have done that.
        aredox 3y ago
        Yeah, and I don't complain we should be informed of everything and anything and what a scandal it is that we're not. What's your point?
- jzymbaluk 3y ago
  Top secret info is shared on a need-to-know basis. The coast guard needed the information, the public didn't
  - paleotrope 3y ago
    Why does the public need to know now if that is the case? I think it's likely the news articles are making it sound more definitive than the Navy was thinking, or maybe the person leaking it to the press was trying to make themselves seem more important or make the Navy seem more omniscient. It does sound like the Navy reviewed their data they had already collected and discovered the implosion and informed people on site that they likely had a termination event.
- soultrees 3y ago
  Great chance to look for Russian subs.
- ChrisRR 3y ago
  What's the point in telling the public any of this anyway? Was there any reason for these people's deaths to be in the news? It has no effect on people's lives.
- lm28469 3y ago
  People shouldn't even be aware of the loss of this sub. I feel like we're in a black mirror episode, who gives a fuck ? seriously
  - jhbadger 3y ago
    It's worth knowing just how unregulated the whole "adventure tourism" industry is. You might be not in the wealth bracket for Titanic tours, but there are more reasonably priced "adventurous" things you could do and it is worth being aware that nobody seems to be checking if these things are safe.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

ALittleLight 3y ago

[flagged]

dazilcher 3y ago
Certainty.
tw04 3y ago
Because they wanted to at least give a few days to find conclusive proof (wreckage) so they could inform the family's before all of us?
- ALittleLight 3y ago
  "Hey, we're pretty sure your family is dead, because we heard them die, but we're going to give you a few days of thinking they're suffocating to death in a cold dark can because..." This is just reasoning after the fact. It doesn't make sense to conceal evidence. If this used some secret technology, okay, why say it publicly now? If it's okay to be public, why not a few days ago?
  - satisfice 3y ago
    They certainly told the family about the implosion noise, because I heard one of the expert commentators remark on how he knew about it prior to the news about the knocking noises. If he knew, the family knew. I think they were just holding out hope that it wasn’t an implosion noise.
    - ALittleLight 3y ago
      It's fine to hold out hope, but there's no point to concealing evidence. Why not report what's actually happening to the best of your knowledge?
      - satisfice 3y ago
        I agree.
  - Ratiofarmings 3y ago
    Because dealing with it internally and informing the public are two entirely different things. They may well have told the families some things, but not the public. Afterall this is a privately funded venture and the rescue effort isn't going to be paid for by the public either. They owe us nothing.
    - ragingrobot 3y ago
      > They owe us nothing. Agreed. We seem, as a culture, to feel we're owed, or entitled, to everything nowaways. By releasing this information, there would have possible been a massive outcry by the (unconcerned) public and the families involved that the parties involved weren't doing enough. Everyone would have hopped on the "you're too slow to act" bandwagon. This despite not having any knowledge or expertise in the area. They may have created some headaches at this point, but saved themselves a lot of undeserved headaches and media criticism by not releasing info earlier.
    - redeeman 3y ago
      > They owe us nothing. Are you referring to the actual "government" ? because in that case, it definitely seems like they owe their own citizens something?
      - pohl 3y ago
        They do, but what they owe differs by what part of the government one is dealing with. You’ll find that, with regards to the military, one thing they do not owe to citizens is real-time, unfettered access to intelligence.
    - trogdor 3y ago
      >the rescue effort isn't going to be paid for by the public either That is not true. The federal government does not charge for search and rescue. Why do you believe otherwise?
  - tw04 3y ago
    "Hey we heard a loud boom that may or may not mean your family is dead, and we have no other source of confirmation at this point but just stew on that for a few days while we try to confirm." Do you have NO empathy? Why would they tell the family they think everyone is dead without verifiable proof and within the window in which they could still be alive? (4 days of oxygen). What is the benefit beyond a bunch of virtual gawkers getting slightly more information slightly quicker?
    - ALittleLight 3y ago
      I'm rolling my eyes at the "Do you have NO empathy" bit. Is it empathy that drives one to lie by omission to obfuscate the death of others? Is that the word for it? You don't have to tell the family you're certain they are dead, if you aren't, but you should tell the family "We heard a sound consistent with implosion at the same time we simultaneously lost communications and telemetry from the sub. The most rational explanation is that they are all dead." Once you've told the family, you should tell the public. What people are engaging in here, you included, is some kind of baffling Just World bias. That is, this unusual circumstance has happened - the sub imploded, the government knew, the government waited days to tell the public, and now you and others are defending the government's actions - as if, because it happened this way it must be justified in happening this way. In reality, of course, it's completely irrational - that's why you don't even bother to defend the course of events rather than imply I lack empathy (which, again, backwards because you are defending lying to the bereaved for no gain, in order to deceive them into believing their loved ones are huddled in the cold and dark and slowly suffocating when you know they are not). There is absolutely no reason to temporarily conceal the deaths. The government should have notified the families with their information, and then the public.
awb 3y ago
Probably a mixture of declassification procedures, no imminent danger to the public and a desire to confirm the incident visually before giving up hope.
- pfannkuchen 3y ago
  Don’t forget bureaucracy!
danso 3y ago
Why is the Navy obligated to say something before the wreck is found? Coast Guard was still going to do a search anyway, and it’s not as if tiktokers were sailing out to help with the search. The US government did reject the OceanGate’s and Explorer’s Group request for military airlifts, so it’s possible the Navy intel played a part in saving those resources from being pointlessly expended https://twitter.com/NewsNation/status/1670998331663994882?s=20 https://twitter.com/NewsNation/status/1670998331663994882?s=... edit: added “not” to the tiktokers doing a search
afavour 3y ago
I’d flip it: what’s the point in informing the public about something you’re not definitive about? Particularly when lives are at stake.
- ALittleLight 3y ago
  They heard the implosion at the same time they lost contact with the sub. Why not say that? There is neither added nor diminished risk to life by revealing or concealing that. As for what the point of informing the public is - the government serves the public and the public was interested. Without a compelling reason to keep information secret the government should share. As
  - aredox 3y ago
    Your voyeurism is annoying and very off-putting. Find yourself saner hobbies.
    - ALittleLight 3y ago
      4/5 of your last comments are about this topic. The government shouldn't conceal information to mislead the public without some compelling reason. Since no reason exists here, the government shouldn't have done that.
      - aredox 3y ago
        Yeah, and I don't complain we should be informed of everything and anything and what a scandal it is that we're not. What's your point?
jzymbaluk 3y ago
Top secret info is shared on a need-to-know basis. The coast guard needed the information, the public didn't
- paleotrope 3y ago
  Why does the public need to know now if that is the case? I think it's likely the news articles are making it sound more definitive than the Navy was thinking, or maybe the person leaking it to the press was trying to make themselves seem more important or make the Navy seem more omniscient. It does sound like the Navy reviewed their data they had already collected and discovered the implosion and informed people on site that they likely had a termination event.
soultrees 3y ago
Great chance to look for Russian subs.
ChrisRR 3y ago
What's the point in telling the public any of this anyway? Was there any reason for these people's deaths to be in the news? It has no effect on people's lives.
lm28469 3y ago
People shouldn't even be aware of the loss of this sub. I feel like we're in a black mirror episode, who gives a fuck ? seriously
- jhbadger 3y ago
  It's worth knowing just how unregulated the whole "adventure tourism" industry is. You might be not in the wealth bracket for Titanic tours, but there are more reasonably priced "adventurous" things you could do and it is worth being aware that nobody seems to be checking if these things are safe.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]